Gun Registry: Provinces Won't Get Any Help From Feds To Set Up Database

Hunting Rifles

First Posted: 07/11/11 04:47 PM ET Updated: 09/10/11 06:12 AM ET

THE CANADIAN PRESS -- MONTREAL - The federal government says it won't offer any help to provinces thinking of creating their own long-gun registry, whether in the form of cash or even records from the soon-to-be-dismantled federal database.

Ottawa reacted Monday to a report that the Quebec government has a so-called "Plan B" -- to set up its own registry -- if the federal program is scrapped.

Citing privacy issues, a spokesman for federal Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Ottawa would not share records held by the Canadian Firearms Program with the provinces.

"The information was collected by the federal government for one specific purpose where people understood what was going to be done with that information," Michael Patton said.

"The minute you try to repurpose something for something else, then you can't share the information because of the Privacy Act."

A government source, who did not want to be named, also said the Tories will not be offering any money for the creation of provincial gun registries, either.

The Conservatives have long promised to abolish the program, which they call ineffective and wasteful.

With their powerful majority mandate in hand, the Tories outlined their intention to eliminate the long-gun registry in last month's throne speech. Prime Minister Stephen Harper's legislative majority would have no trouble killing the registry.

His plans have met the stiffest resistance over the years in Quebec, which became a hotbed of the gun-control movement after the massacre of 14 women at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique in 1989.

Patton said Quebec or any other province remains free to build its own registry from scratch.

"We're getting rid of the gun registry, but provinces are entitled to do whatever they want to do," he said.

"Canadians gave our government a strong mandate to end the long-gun registry once and for all and that is exactly what we intend to do."

Supporters of the registry say it saves lives, particularly in reducing the use of firearms in domestic disputes, suicides and attacks against police.

Quebec Public Security Minister Robert Dutil told The Canadian Press that civil servants are considering a provincial registry if the Conservatives deliver on their promise to ditch the federal one.

But Dutil said his priority is focused on convincing the Conservatives to keep the registry alive.

The Quebec government has long supported the registry. During the 2008 federal election campaign, Premier Jean Charest urged the parties to maintain it and reinforce gun-control regulations.

A spokesman for Dutil said Monday that provincial civil servants are studying a range of potential solutions to the likely abolition of the federal gun registry.

"It's too early to know if, yes or no, there will be a Quebec gun registry," said Mathieu St-Pierre.

"If there are elements that we need -- records or other things -- the (civil servants') study will say whether it's one of the proposed solutions."

There are about 1.7 million registered firearms in Quebec -- the second-most in any province -- according to recently released statistics from the Canadian Firearms Program.

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THE CANADIAN PRESS -- MONTREAL - The federal government says it won't offer any help to provinces thinking of creating their own long-gun registry, whether in the form of cash or even records from the...
THE CANADIAN PRESS -- MONTREAL - The federal government says it won't offer any help to provinces thinking of creating their own long-gun registry, whether in the form of cash or even records from the...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:37 AM on 07/13/2011
If Quebec and Ontario want to drastically cut down on the use of guns during the commission of a crime(and this IS what it's SUPPOSED to be about, right?) then make a MAJOR, SUSTAINED effort to STOP the smuggling of automatic weapons and handguns THROUGH the border straddling reserves along the St. Lawrence River.
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Add In Canadia
Egotism is a weakness
01:35 PM on 07/12/2011
Why, why, WHY! Do people still support the gun registry? It's pointless! It's a simple logic problem, takes a TINY bit of critical thinking on people's part, but it's easy to see how ineffective it is.

You register a gun, wonderful! How does this prevent a gun based crime? Let's say a family gets into a dispute, and it ends up in a murder/suicide combo. Registered gun, dead family. Nothing accomplished. So let's say another person registers their gun and has a really bad day and goes crazy, shooting up a mall. Registered gun, dead people. Nothing accomplished. Or how about a person gets wind of a person's gun collection, steals it, then sells all of them to criminals that then proceed to kill people. Again, nothing accomplished.

The gun registry has about the same effectiveness as a pet registry: As in if you lose it, the government can return it back to you. The problem with guns is when anyone loses their gun, someone will have already died.

Know what prevents gun based crimes? Background checks to ensure that the person getting a gun isn't crazy; and guess what? We have that! Money doesn't need to be put into a gun registry, it needs to be put into resources to ensure that violent people aren't arming themselves. Not to mention to ensure that guns aren't being imported in from other countries, cause a gun registry certainly doesn't stop the import of illegal firearms.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
11:19 PM on 07/11/2011
Typical neo-con tactic. Download onto the state/province and to hell if the policy is flawed.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:39 AM on 07/13/2011
How can it be a "download" if a province does NOT want to have a useless and ineffective law/regulation on the books?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
01:31 PM on 07/14/2011
That is the plan in a nut shell, you got it entirely. If nobody wants to make the law they can either seize it to the Federal juristirction or ignore it.
09:13 PM on 07/11/2011
And where is Fantino in all of this? Did he have to sign a pre-nup or something?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
11:30 PM on 07/11/2011
The Chief very quickly learned that he was no longer a big fish in a small pond but a small fish in a big pond. The Boss makes the rules and the chief now follows them.
08:49 PM on 07/11/2011
Even some of the NDP want it over with...
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
11:37 PM on 07/11/2011
I'm a Dipper and from a rural riding. The only complaint I have about the long arm registry is the cost... I mean, somebodys got to account for the waste of money if nothing else!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:47 AM on 07/13/2011
I'm rural and a retired law enforcement officer. The gun registry has NEVER solved a crime, nor has it EVER prevented a killing. It is a federal Liberal make-work program for lyal supporters in Atlantic Canada. The records are a MESS. They are NOT accurate. There are guns registered to people who don't own guns. There are specific guns registered to people who DO NOT own those particular weapons. IN SPITE of what is claimed, as a "research tool" to ascertain if a household has firearms registered to it, (in the often mentioned case of response to "a domestic", the AVERAGE TIME to retrieve possibly faulty information is 45 minutes. Know of any citizen willing to wait 45 minutes for emergency response that would normally take 8-12 minutes ? THAT'S how useless the LGR really is.
08:47 PM on 07/11/2011
The provinces register cars, they can register rifles if they want.

700 employees and billions of dollars, what a waste.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
arkymorgan
Nobody knows the trouble I've been...
08:37 PM on 07/11/2011
I never have understood why the gun registry was so expensive. They could have given me two used PCs, a laptop and some part-time high school students, with a $50,000/yr salary and I could have done a perfectly good job out of my spare bedroom.
08:48 PM on 07/11/2011
Agree, govt waste, payoffs etc etc billions and still 700 employees
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
valar84
10:22 PM on 07/11/2011
If it's like other cases of botched databases and registries, the problem is the lack of experienced staff in the offices of the government and of strong central leadership. So they're unable to really work well with or control the private consultants hired to do most of the job (and some consultants then try to squeeze as much cash as they can).

When decisions have to be made, confusion reigns as to who is supposed to make them because the minister doesn't want to own up to the responsibility and the workers themselves don't want to stick their necks out because if there are problems, they get blamed, but if they do a good job, then they have no positive feedback at all or rewards.

What is needed to avoid these problems is to have a strong and experienced public service with clear direction and leadership, so that there is one person responsible of the project who has the authority to make the decisions related to it. A bit like a "Czar" in American politics.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
greysells2
grey cells matter
05:08 PM on 07/11/2011
"Canadians gave our government a strong mandate to end the long-gun registry once and for all and that is exactly what we intend to do."

I would dare say that the minority of Canadians who voted Conservative and ended up giving the Conservatives a majority in Parliament did not consciously give the Conservatives a mandate to end the long gun registry in Canada. Some did, but most did not.This is an overreach by Harper to pander to a minority in his "base".
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:58 AM on 07/13/2011
Like it or not, Harper has a majority government. His "hidden agenda" has been on the parliamentary order paper for FIVE years, for ALL to read. The LGR was there.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
04:55 PM on 07/11/2011
I, as usual, can't understand why we can't meet in the middle. The left wants to keep all guns registered, the right wants all gunds unregistered ... Can we maybe meet in the middle ?

The majority of the firearms in Canada are full lengh hunting rifles, which are very rarely used with criminal intent. But that's not all the firearms in Canada. We have gun nuts and those gun nuts own 'modified to single fire' assault rifles and pistols, and that's where I'd draw the line.

So the right argues it costs too much money, so why not remove 95% of firearms from the registry and only registering assault rifles and pistols ? Does that make too much sense ? Sorry ...

Look at Canadas children, I mean, politicians at work. It makes the news that Quebec is talking about making it's own registry if the federal one goes the way of the dinosaurs, so does our federal government issue a statement back to Quebec ? Nope ! It just makes a broad statement letting it's "other provinces" know that it won't help with any cash (obviously) but then just to sting a little, won't share the information from the current registry, therefore letting Quebec know "If you do so, you do so from scratch ... take that" ...

Bunch of kids running this country.
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08:12 PM on 07/13/2011
handguns and "assault rifles" will still be registered, this is only getting rid of the LONG GUN registry.
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08:13 PM on 07/13/2011
im what you will consider a "gun nut," nobody owns registered "modified to single fire" assault rifles, please do some research.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
11:15 AM on 07/14/2011
"nobody owns registered "modified to single fire" assault rifles"

I beg to differ, my eyes don't lie, neither did my hands when I held it. The firing range didn't seem to mind either.
04:29 PM on 07/11/2011
so with the money saved from the registry ----

-will the feds step up to the plate to curb the flow of hand guns over the southern border ????

or will that upset their second BFF
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
01:00 AM on 07/13/2011
If they did that, would they be infringing on native rights to smuggle drugs, cigarettes and guns across the St. Lawrence?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sfurr
04:05 PM on 07/11/2011
Harper strikes again!

Once again, blind ideology and pandering take precedence over sound policy making. This excuse of privacy concerns -- gee why is that a constant refrain from the conservatives -- is hollow and disingenuous. If the government has the ability to collect national information on gun registration for legitimate policy purposes, then surely it is able to pass it down to another level of government for the exact same policy purposes. The obvious counter-example is that if this privacy issue were true, municipal police services would never have been able to access the records.

The problem with the arrogance is that Harper and his minions steadfastly refuse to be honest with Canadians.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
04:48 PM on 07/11/2011
And many Canadians blindly follow because "I'm tired of my tax dollars going to someone other than me".