Christy Clark: RCMP Deal Must Give Province Some Control Over Spending, Could Consider Alternative Force

Christy Clark

First Posted: 09/30/11 05:06 PM ET Updated: 09/30/11 09:39 PM ET

VANCOUVER - Relations between the federal and B.C. governments appeared to thaw a bit Friday in the dispute over a new contract to keep the RCMP policing British Columbia.

After brinksmanship and sniping earlier this week, James Moore, the federal minister who represents British Columbia at the cabinet table, said he's optimistic a new deal can be reached.

"You know, we agree. We agree on a 20-year timeline, we agree with the funding formula, we agree on the dollar amount, and we agree in principle that the RCMP needs to have checks and balances over the way in which they're going to be spending money over the next 20 years," Moore said while attending the annual convention of B.C. municipal politicians.

The provincial and municipal governments want more say over RCMP spending, but Moore insists the province has not tabled a specific proposal.

Premier Christy Clark said Friday she was pleased to hear Moore's optimism.

She said without some progress, British Columbia may have to consider a provincial police force if it can't get an acceptable deal with Ottawa.

British Columbia has been insisting at the bargaining table that it needs some control over police spending and the Mounties must be more accountable to the communities they serve.

Without those kinds of assurances that policing bills won't balloon, the province might find it's cheaper to go it alone and form a provincial police force, Clark said.

"It might be cheaper than the deal that's on the table today," she said.

"This is why we're fighting for a better deal. This is why we want to make sure we get something that is more reasonable that protects property tax payers better."

Solicitor General Shirley Bond dropped a bombshell earlier this week when she told the Union of B.C. Municipalities that talks with Ottawa over the renewal of the RCMP contract had broken down.

Bond said the federal government had issued an ultimatum: Reach a deal by the end of November or the RCMP will withdraw from B.C. in 2014 when the current contract runs out.

On Thursday, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told question period "the time is coming to an end."

It was an overt fissure in a federal-provincial relationship that has been largely without cracks for almost 10 years.

Bond said that when British Columbia complained about the ultimatum, the federal government simply forwarded B.C. negotiators a copy of the contracts recently signed by Saskatchewan and Alberta.

Toews called them "cost-effective."

Officials in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Nova Scotia, among other provinces, have said they're hoping British Columbia sets the stage for similar contracts in their jurisdictions.

But Moore said Friday there is no ultimatum.

"What there is a timeline. By the way, nothing is driving this debate to more clarity than the idea of a timeline," he said.

"We're having this debate, forcing all parties to come to clarity on what their positions are so we can all move forward."

Clark brushed aside suggestions B.C. and Ottawa are at loggerheads.

"Our relationship with Ottawa has been very harmonious and it continues to be harmonious," she said.

But she added: "Occasionally we are going to disagree about things. Negotiating a 20-year-deal is a pretty serious undertaking. . . I know the prime minister is just as interested in protecting taxpayers in British Columbia as I am."

Langley City Mayor Peter Fassbender, who has been an observer at the contract talks, said he's also encouraged by Moore's comments.

But he said there are still some money issues that need to be hammered out, including how municipalities, the province and the federal government work together to control costs.

"That's a big issue that's going to take time to work out."

Delegates at the convention unanimously endorsed a motion Friday asking the province and Ottawa to get back to bargaining to reach a new deal.

(CKNW, News1130)

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VANCOUVER - Relations between the federal and B.C. governments appeared to thaw a bit Friday in the dispute over a new contract to keep the RCMP policing British Columbia.After brinksmanship and snipi...
VANCOUVER - Relations between the federal and B.C. governments appeared to thaw a bit Friday in the dispute over a new contract to keep the RCMP policing British Columbia.After brinksmanship and snipi...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JackHoffman
Pundit
01:24 AM on 10/20/2011
So much police. When will it end?
09:14 PM on 10/02/2011
Plenty of British Columbians would have the RCMP gone already.

While the local police forces are just as disappointing as the RCMP, the RCMP is the biggest, and therefore the most potentially destructive force, and as such, it had the greatest duty to exercise the most responsible practices.

During the past decade, the RCMP has defended outrageous incidents with the phrase "the officer was in compliance with his training," as if that was in any way reassuring to the public.

When a police officer kills an innocent man, or tasers an elderly heart-surgery patient in post-op, or tasers a teenaged mother with a baby in her arms, the LAST thing a normal member of the public wants to hear is that they consider that correct procedure.

It's as if they don't even understand what people are shocked over. It is as if they are completely incapable of thinking like A NORMAL HUMAN BEING.

The RCMP is insane if it thinks the public will tolerate any demands whatsoever.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dread
05:35 PM on 10/01/2011
The new Royal Harper Police Force will be quite different than what people are use to. The egomaniac has a majority so watch out. Resistance is futile.
01:34 PM on 10/01/2011
hear in wahington we have the state patrol, county cops, city cops, plus FBI, Postal inspectors, transit police. and much more. the advantage of state police is that at least governor and state government can set prioties.
09:43 PM on 10/01/2011
ya priorities like how to taser and kill people, and then how to lie and cover up the incident. Or like bring in so called terror laws which give local police more power to abuse average citizens rights and then cover it up etc etc...
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db44
From My Perspective
09:00 AM on 10/01/2011
There are some economies to be had by contracting with the RCMP. Notwithstanding a few bad apples, a reality of any province have 6000 police officers, the RCMP provides an organizational infrastructure for training and operational support. The federal govermemt covers a certain portion of those policing costs that are deemed to be federal related. So, while the BC government may want to go their own way, the start-up costs will be significant. They have a good deal right now.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
09:48 AM on 10/01/2011
the startup costs for a police force they already have? sorry im confused?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MsCanuck
Wife, Mother, New Democrat, Pro-Choice, Atheist
09:52 AM on 10/01/2011
What they have now is Federal infrastructure all the assets, building, cars, etc. are owned by the federal government, they would now have to build Provincial infrastructure to accomodate their provincial force.
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gwinegarden
She's an Arctic Wolf
10:24 AM on 10/01/2011
Buildings, furniture, cars, communications equipment, staff, a training facility, instructors, and of course, people to train.

All this would also take time and, during that time, they would still be paying for the GRC.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
09:55 AM on 10/01/2011
if you by have a good deal you mean have an abusive police force the community cant trust and doesnt clearly want without accountablility (hence no opposition to the premiere on this issue) then your right. the immigrant community learned long ago and the white community is only learning now through the dawn of easily available hand held cameras and a seeming unability to control their aggression, anger and violence anymore as a string of brutual, disgusting stories constantly come out almost weekly. my experience with the force, never been arrested, never committed a crime but that didnt stop about half the police trampled on my rights and being "threatening" or imposing,, the other half was nice about it but still trampled my basic rights. the answer? retraining and accountability for a force that sorely needs it all around. not just the RCMP but especially them. the police's first thoughts on the scene should be, how can i help? am what i am doing is within the law and not stepping on their rights. instead the war mentality of anyone being a potential enemy (criminal) is what leads to the abuse and the stress many of them suffer later on. and this is what makes the difference between a true police service and a police state.
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TT Esty1
Failure is a temporary condition.
06:57 AM on 10/01/2011
The reason that the federal-provincial relationship has been largely without cracks is because Harper did not have a majority government before. In the next four years we will experience unprecedented push from the Conservative as they swagger with their 40% majority win. Hopefully, we all won't be in those new prisons that they are building.

While the costs related to the RCMP is important more important is the calibre of officers that the RCMP recruits and trains. Many new initiates are totally unprepared for the task either because of poor training or poor temperament. Many senior officers are burned out and disenchanted. This dysfunctional behaviour is especially noted in smaller and rural areas where the RCMP tend to take on a more military posture.

As other posters have already mentioned, the RCMP officers are not community friendly because they are not going to be in the community very long. Moreover, their officiousness marginalizes them as outsiders. Some of the cost must go into in-service and counselling. Unfortunately, the nature of policing, RCMP or local, almost invariable leads to clannishness and occupational solidarity. This insularity further promotes a 'them and us' mentality. Mind you, the community may also have a 'them and us' attitude towards the police. Thus, a total community policing program must be on-going.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MsCanuck
Wife, Mother, New Democrat, Pro-Choice, Atheist
09:10 AM on 10/01/2011
In the former Halifax County we found the total opposite of what you're assuming about the RCMP, Halifax City Proper, Bedford and Dartmouth are patrolled by Halifax Regional Police, while the former county is patrolled by the RCMP. Last year, city council put a proposal forward to have HRP patrol the city and county areas of Halifax. Former County residents were up in arms, signs popped up everywhere supporting the RCMP, saying we didn't want HRP. In the end, the RCMP stayed. In our view, HRP are the "cowboys" who clash with the urban population while the RCMP delivers a high caliber of service to the area it serves.
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TT Esty1
Failure is a temporary condition.
05:19 PM on 10/01/2011
I would guess that you have superior management in the County and weaker in the City. The tone is set by those who guide and manage the personnel. Policing is a challenging area to manage. You want the police to have enough authority to keep the peace but not enough to subjugate the populace. Candidates must possess a special predisposition to the task. Policing, for the most part, is to help maintain order among diverse dynamics. The actual crime fighting aspect forms a lesser part of the activity although a part calling for special skills. An officer cannot carry the same crime fighting attitude to a jay walker as one to a burglar. Policing is much like a game of hockey, players spend a lot of time on the bench but in the short time on the ice must perform.

Entry to this special occupation must be carefully monitored and present members must be helped in maintaining an integrated community perspective.
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turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
09:33 AM on 10/01/2011
It's always Harpers fault..
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TT Esty1
Failure is a temporary condition.
05:31 PM on 10/01/2011
I'm afraid so. Given that the PMO office prefers that the government be referred to as the Harper Government, it leaves us little choice but to aim at the buffoon on the top rail. Although petulant Baird with his gold enhanced card seems to be vying for a position on the Dunk a Buffoon seat.

Let us enjoy their voyage to self importance and perhaps learn for better days. As you can tell, I have no confidence in this motley crew and so far have had no reason to reconsider. It is only that I have faith in my fellow Canadians that I am comforted that they will limit the harm.
01:54 AM on 10/01/2011
If a province or territory in Canada has the RCMP, the officers come from "somewhere else", and have little to no knowledge of the communities they're posted to, although I suppose they get some briefings beforehand. And then they stay a couple years and get rotated out to somewhere else, thus never truly becoming a part of the community. I'm sure this has some advantages and disadvantages.

Similarly, when a provincial police force sends members to communities, I assume they at least have some knowledge of the community's existence, and maybe even know someone there. Do they stay for many years, and become a part of the community, or are they rotated out to somewhere else?

I'm curious about the pros and cons. A friend of mine was upset when the local RCMP asked to see his license. He's lived in this town for more than 35 years, and to be asked for ID was kind of an insult. (I can relate to that. Due to new post office regulations, people in town had to provide acceptable ID to get their parcels, even though they personally knew the p.o. employees!)

Given the obnoxious and disgusting behaviour of the RCMP in recent years in various places in Canada, maybe a provincial police force would be preferable. At least their masters would be more accessible to the public.

How does it work out in Ontario and Quebec, and in other provinces that have their own provincial police - pros and cons?

But,
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
10:02 AM on 10/01/2011
as for here in ontario the RCMP are just as bad as the other police forces. no respect, trampling your rights and the supreme law of canada, the constitution . instead of approaching a scene, seeing how they can help, thinking how they can ensure they dont BREAK THE LAW. instead they prefer to find one of the tens of thousands of ways they can charge or get you for something. and when all else fails and theres no evidence, say tyou can do a car search then lie (to me) and say i cant refuse. its alot simpler when you "know the law" and abuse your power so you can bully and torment the population. welcome to the police state. oh and thank you cops for nothing. about half or a quarter of you are good people im sure, but good people forced into an institution that demands absolute obedience, gives an immense amount of power with no accountability to individuals, and then trains them as if they everyones is a potential enemy no wonder they are such messed up bullys? the recent evidence? a police officer doesn't identify himself and tasers a teenager in the face, who then smashes his head on the concrete. wow thank you officer for possibly causing sever brain damage, seizures and a list of other terrible diseases. and for what a "disturbing the peace" charge? disgusting
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
12:50 AM on 10/01/2011
Doesn't make a lot of sense to keep these guys. Did any one keep a list of all the RCMP who have been charged with assault in the last year? The last one was a girl. These guys are stressed out and need a break. If two provinces can have provincial police there is no reason a third can't.
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CarlyQ
Without followers, evil cannot spread.
12:49 AM on 10/01/2011
The RCMP hasn't been doing a good job for a number of years now. Sad as it is, sometimes an unruly tree needs a serious pruning to grow right again.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
10:06 AM on 10/01/2011
the RCMP actually haven't been doing a good job since their inception. when they werent stealing aboriginal children, they wasted the Canadians precious resources spying on "real threats" like tommy douglas. when they are doing that, they are beating and killing fellow Canadians and immigrants with impunity.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:11 AM on 10/01/2011
Christy Clark is dreaming. Just like all the rest of her irrational, impractical regurgitated, relabeled "NEW" policy announcements, she is a TOTAL FRAUD.
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11:49 PM on 09/30/2011
I sort of like having the RCMP around. They're very capable and dependable people.

Ummmmmm . . . let me see . . . national police or provincial police. I'll take national.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
10:50 AM on 10/01/2011
Careful with that stapler...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LeftyNeoCon
What happens when extreme left and right combine.
11:34 PM on 09/30/2011
The RCMP is quickly losing its relevance on the national stage despite its role in the more sparsely populated regions of the country. What used to be a national police force that sometimes bordered, and stepped over into, a military force became something of an organized crime and drug enforcement agency that also took on the role of anti-terrorist organization. Not to mention its been leaderless for the last two generations of cops in the force itself, meaning the only loyalty RCMP officers have is most likely to their regional or even local superiors.

In short the situation is a big time bomb. Send them packing B.C. before you get more hush-ups.
10:17 PM on 09/30/2011
Hmmm ... I never thought of this before. Maybe Harper wants to shut down the RCMP too?
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10:45 PM on 09/30/2011
Why not? He's accused of everything from wanting to halt socialized medical insurance to kidnapping the Lindbergh baby. We'll just add it to the list.
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BCSLAVE
Got a key?
11:15 PM on 09/30/2011
And create his own force from within his party's security apparatus. lol
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jamster88
09:35 PM on 09/30/2011
This unelected leader of BC has no mandate.
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BCSLAVE
Got a key?
11:16 PM on 09/30/2011
Well who else is going to stand up for us at this point in time.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cariboofly
Aye, Ready, Aye & Semper Fi
12:13 AM on 10/01/2011
Chrusty stands only for herself.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Archie1955
09:35 PM on 09/30/2011
If she gets rid of the RCMP, I'll change my mind and vote for her.