Gun Registry: Montreal Massacre Survivor Slams Federal Plan To Scrap Records

Gun Registry Montreal Massacre

First Posted: 11/24/11 02:38 PM ET Updated: 11/24/11 10:50 PM ET

OTTAWA - The Conservative government is ignoring evidence and common sense in dismantling the long-gun registry, says a survivor of the 1989 Montreal massacre.

Nathalie Provost, an engineer who was shot at the Ecole Polytechnique, told the Commons public safety committee Thursday she's watching with a "heavy heart" as the Tories move to scrap the registry.

"Long guns are dangerous. And this I know," Provost told MPs studying a government bill.

The legislation introduced last month would end registration of common rifles and shotguns and permanently delete more than seven million files on gun ownership.

The Tories argue the registration of long guns is wasteful and unnecessary. However, they support the licensing of gun owners and registration of prohibited and restricted weapons such as handguns.

Provost said all guns can be used to do harm.

"In 11 days, it will be the 22nd anniversary of the Polytechnique massacre, in which I was injured and escaped death," she said at the hearing.

"So it is with a heavy heart that I am witnessing the legislative process that is leading to the dismantling of one of the few positive outcomes of this tragedy: the law that helps save hundreds and hundreds of lives."

The government argues the long-gun registry merely penalizes law-abiding gun owners and has not saved a single life since being ushered in by the Liberals in 1995.

Officials should be trying to keep guns away from people who shouldn't own them, Sgt. Duane Rutledge of the New Glasgow, N.S., police service told the committee.

"I think we've targeted the wrong people."

The bill before Parliament will not only spell the registry's demise, but "critically weaken" the firearms licensing system that determines who can own a gun, said Heidi Rathjen — like Provost a graduate of Ecole Polytechnique and one of the gun-control advocates who supported creation of the registry in the 1990s.

The legislation would eliminate the need for a fresh registration certificate to be issued when a non-restricted gun is transferred to a new party, thereby scratching a requirement to tell the federal registrar of firearms.

The person selling or transferring the gun would simply have to believe that the new owner has a valid firearms licence.

"Technically they don't even have to ask to see a licence," Rathjen told the committee.

"It could be a revoked licence, a counterfeit licence or even a shabby but slightly official-looking plasticized card that could be produced in any copy shop," she said.

"It's a huge loophole that you could drive a freight train through."

In just over two years, 4,612 long guns were seized in relation to licences revoked for public safety reasons, Rathjen and Provost said in their brief to the committee.

In the Commons, New Democrat MP Francoise Boivin said the Conservatives are letting victims down by killing the registry.

"Will the government not realize this error before it is too late?"

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said selling a gun to an unlicensed person is a crime. "If you do so you will be held accountable to the full extent of the law."

Rathjen argues, however, that it will be almost impossible for police to prove a seller is lying when they say they believed the buyer had a valid firearms licence.

The legislation would override provisions of the Library and Archives of Canada Act and the Privacy Act to allow for destruction of the long-gun records.

Quebec wants to use the data to create its own registry, but the federal government refuses to share the records.

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  • What does this new bill on the gun registry do?

    We keep hearing about scrapping the long-gun registry, but really what we're talking about is scrapping the requirement for people to register their rifles and shotguns - that's what Bill C-19 aims to do by making amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. Once passed, people will not have to register their non-restricted or non-prohibited firearms. It also provides for the destruction of existing records in the Canadian Firearms Registry for those firearms. <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • What exactly is the registry?

    It's a centralized database overseen by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that links firearms with their licensed owners. It contains information about all three types of guns that must be registered - non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. (All firearms must be registered.) To register a firearm, you have to have a licence to possess it.

  • Does the bill make any changes to licensing requirements?

    No. Canadian residents need a licence in order to possess and register a firearm or ammunition and that won't change. There are a couple of different kinds of licences because of various changes to laws and regulations over the years.

  • What are long guns?

    There are three types of guns under Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Most common long guns - rifles and shotguns - are non-restricted but there are a few exceptions. A sawed-off shotgun, for example, is a prohibited firearm. A handgun is an example of a restricted firearm. Different regulations apply to different classifications of firearms.

  • How many guns are we talking about?

    As of September 2011, there were about 7.8 million registered guns. Of those, 7.1 million are non-restricted firearms.

  • Why does the government want to get rid of the long-gun registry?

    The government says it is wasteful and ineffective at reducing crime and targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals, who don't register their firearms.

  • Who wants to keep it?

    Police and victims' groups are big supporters of the registry. Police say the database helps them evaluate a potential safety threat when they pull a vehicle over or are called to a residence. They also say it helps support police investigations because the registry can help determine if a gun was stolen, illegally imported, acquired or manufactured. This year, the RCMP says police agencies accessed it on average more than 17,000 times a day.

  • When will the registry cease to exist?

    The government has passed the legislation and the registry no longer exists. Except for in Quebec, where an ongoing court challenge means the owners must still register their guns in the province.

  • Why does the government want to destroy the records?

    The government is doing this to ensure that no future non-Conservative government can recreate the registry. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has also made it clear that if any province wants to set up its own registry it would get no help from the federal government. The Conservatives are so fundamentally opposed to the existence of the records, because they say they focus on law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, that they don't want them available for anyone to use.

  • How much does the registry cost?

    The registry cost more than $1 billion to set up in 1995 and the cost was the source of much controversy. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Oct. 25 that the government's best estimate is that it costs about $22 million a year to operate. That's the entire registry, not just the long-gun portion, but he noted most of the guns in the registry are long guns. He said he didn't know how much money scrapping the requirement to register long guns would save the government. Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner says there are also "hidden costs" that are borne by provincial and municipal police agencies to enforce the registry.

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OTTAWA - The Conservative government is ignoring evidence and common sense in dismantling the long-gun registry, says a survivor of the 1989 Montreal massacre.Nathalie Provost, an engineer who was sho...
OTTAWA - The Conservative government is ignoring evidence and common sense in dismantling the long-gun registry, says a survivor of the 1989 Montreal massacre.Nathalie Provost, an engineer who was sho...
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
01:21 PM on 11/28/2011
Why is it ok to parade a victim of the shooting around, but anti-abortion activists can't show pictures of dead fetuses?
11:15 PM on 11/27/2011
Instead, increase the punishment for crimes committed with a weapons.

I feel for her as a victim. But I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this registry and never have been. I'd like to believe that it would help, but I've never seen an argument that I find convincing.

Putting a victim's face on it certainly breaks my heart, but it doesn't convince me.
02:38 AM on 11/27/2011
If a person is as unbalanced as Lepine was why would any type of registry stop them. These types are not dealing in reality
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03:35 AM on 11/28/2011
Yeah it not like they can find amfo recipe on the net or something... Oh wait! Also that horrific event happened two decades ago it not like we had a surge of nutjobs shooting up the place since. In fact since 1987 Canada been a pretty quiet place when it come to crazies with guns and the registry did not exist for more than half of that time period.
01:47 PM on 11/25/2011
If the conservatives care so much about the costs of the long gun registry, than how can they turn around and support building new prisons, which costs WAY more than the billion dollars it saves to remove this registry, In fact, it costs approximately 180,000$ per year to house an offender in an institution--an institution that fails to rehabilitate offenders and offer justice to the public.
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colpy
02:46 PM on 11/25/2011
ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the subject at hand............and, in fact, I would agree the Omnibus Crime Bill is largely nonsense.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
01:19 PM on 11/28/2011
The prisons are falling down and are overcrowded, if Harper wasn't proposing to improve that the usual suspects would be wailing about that...

Yawn, wake me up when you have some credibility...
01:46 PM on 11/25/2011
Second, the article says "Rathjen argues, however, that it will be almost impossible for police to prove a seller is lying when they say they believed the buyer had a valid firearms licence." because techinically people dont have to ask for a license. Well--why not implement legislation requiring cashiers to ask for a license? Thats like removing the legal drinking age by arguing that cashiers at the LCBO can just claim that they thought a 16-year old has a license because they didnt have to ask. How does that help anybody?

And finally, to the people arguing that we should remove the registry simply because it hasnt proven to save anybodies life yet-- this argument is analogous to arguing that Aliens exist because no evidence is out there to prove that they dont exist. Just because there is a lack of evidence identifying that the long gun registry saves lives, does not mean that it doesnt save lives. The only way to prove you people wrong is to wait until a situation occurs where somebody is killed with a rifle and the police are unable to identify the perpetrator. If thats the extent of the evidence you people need to want to stop the long gun registry, then theres clearly something wrong with you when it takes the cost of somebody's life to merely prove you wrong. This registry is about managing risks.
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colpy
02:44 PM on 11/25/2011
Please see my reply to your post below.......

You can't match gun and bullet unless you have BOTH in your possession.

It doesn't save lives.
If it did, the murder rate would not have jumped in 2003 and 2004, after the registry was "completed" on Dec. 31, 2002.

The idea that a list of firearms can save lives is like believing in aliens......
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
01:20 PM on 11/28/2011
Guns save lives, ask anyone who has used one in defence of their lives.
01:45 PM on 11/25/2011
Wow, so many inner contradictions within the line of reasoning claiming that we should eradicate the long gun registry. This legislation is horrible and it blows my mind that any safe person could want to own a gun so bad that theyre willing to risk the lives of their community, their family and themselves to have the freedom to own one--or wait, own one and not register it.

First, the article claims that "Officials should be trying to keep guns away from people who shouldn't own them". So, by removing a process of registering and recording who in Canada owns a gun, how does this prevent people who shouldnt own guns not owning them? The point of the long gun registry isnt to identify which dangerous people are trying to get a gun--it should be to identify who has a gun in Canada. Heres why-- with a registry, anytime somebody is shot, the police can remove the bullet from the corpse and identify what type of bullet it is, and what type of gun it came from. Then, the police can pull up a list of names of people in Canada who own that type of gun (from the registry) and therefore identify the perpetrator of the shooting to compile evidence and secure a charge. Without a registry, its going to increase the costs of homicide departments to go to all of the local stores and pull up the histories of who has purchased guns in the areas.
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colpy
02:40 PM on 11/25/2011
".......with a registry, anytime somebody is shot, the police can remove the bullet from the corpse and identify what type of bullet it is, and what type of gun it came from. Then, the police can pull up a list of names of people in Canada who own that type of gun (from the registry) and therefore identify the perpetrato­r of the shooting to compile evidence and secure a charge. Without a registry, its going to increase the costs of homicide department­s to go to all of the local stores and pull up the histories of who has purchased guns in the areas. "

That is simply ludicrous........I am sorry, but this post alone shows you know absolutely nothing about firearms......or the registry itself.

To start with, the registry (at a current cost approaching $2 billion) does not even list the caliber of the registered firearm. The registration is so vague I have to write additional description on the back of the card so I can tell which firearm in my collection the card is for, without resorting to looking at hidden serial numbers. The idea that the police can pull a bullet out of someone and match it to a firearm NOT in their possession is....well, erroneous.

It doesn't happen.

It can't.

Start again..............
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sdgreen
10:37 AM on 11/25/2011
Thing is that the Gun Registry or any registry would not have stopped the event.
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butchcliff
The future is unwritten
06:24 AM on 11/25/2011
Gun registry would not have prevented this event and hasn't proven to prevent any such incidents since. Even if registered some could/would use them do harm.
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jamster88
02:40 AM on 11/25/2011
Liberals claim to be on the side of science and yet can't deal with the facts.

The facts are that the registry doesn't do a bit to protect anyone.

The facts are that it's a simple database that cost a billion dollars to make.

If A) this actually did some good and B) didn't cost a fortune, sure, it would make sense.

Why do liberals want to waste money on pointless projects?
12:32 AM on 11/25/2011
It makes no sense to build more prisons, profess support for victims, and inact tough crime legislation and at the same time take away the tools of law enforcement like the gun registery, but then it is all ideological and that never makes sense!
10:48 PM on 11/24/2011
Hey, how about a knife registry? Very deadly
10:47 PM on 11/24/2011
And the registry would have made no difference, except for maybe the almost $3 billion spent would have left less disposable income in the perps pocket and he couldnt have afforded to take the bus!
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BCSLAVE
Got a key?
09:39 PM on 11/24/2011
Don't worry the Harper Government is making sure these complainers will be monitored by the new proposed spying laws. How dare they embarrass the great leader.
09:38 PM on 11/24/2011
The bill is in committee, so It won't be long.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=5188309

Also, can anyone tell me how to add a micro bio? I can't figure out how.

Thank you.
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Add In Canadia
Egotism is a weakness
03:22 AM on 11/25/2011
I think the micro bio is something you eventually get or something. I wasn't able to have one for awhile, then the option appeared.