PRPP: Tories Cut Off Debate On Registered Pooled Pension Plan Amid Outcry Over Unrelated OAS Reforms

Prpp Oas Canada Pension

First Posted: 01/31/2012 1:08 pm Updated: 01/31/2012 11:23 pm

OTTAWA - The Conservative government's move Tuesday to curtail debate on legislation creating a new pooled pension plan illustrated some of the potentially scalding political perils of retirement reform.

There is nothing very controversial about the Harper government's December 2010 promise to add a relatively low-cost, private pension option that can be used by employers and workers to set up retirement savings plans.

While opposition parties have dismissed "Pooled Registered Pension Plans" as missing the mark or redundant, the critiques have been relatively mild. The proposal offers an additional way for Canadians to save for retirement, which few can condemn.

"This is really just another group RRSP," NDP critic Irene Mathyssen complained Tuesday in the House of Commons. "It has none of the benefits of the Canada Pension Plan."

But as parliamentarians returned from a six-week break, debate on the legislation has provided opposition MPs a venue to tee off on a far more contentious notion — tinkering with Old Age Security.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper let the pension genie out of the bottle last week with a speech in Davos, Switzerland, where he made the case that OAS, in its present form, is unsustainable in the longer term.

His government has been playing defence ever since, stoutly insisting that current "seniors will not lose a penny" — but leaving future pension provisions in a cloud of ambiguity.

The lack of clarity has allowed the pension issue to dominate the first two question periods of the winter sitting of parliament, with the prospect of many more to come.

"Seniors are worried about their future, but they are also worried about the future of their children and their grandchildren," interim NDP Leader Nicole Turmel lamented Tuesday. "Our seniors have worked hard to give a better life for future generations."

Harper was left to reiterate that no immediate benefit changes are coming, while enigmatically affirming that "younger generations expect us to ensure the system is viable for them."

Into this morass, the government brought forward for debate Bill C-25, the innocuous pooled pension bill. But the manoeuvre simply allowed the opposition to keep the kettle boiling and maintain the whole pension issue in the public eye.

Liberal Leader Bob Rae, ostensibly addressing pooled pensions, barely touched the legislation itself in his address to the Commons earlier this week.

"The Conservative Party was opposed to the original Canada Pension Plan," he charged, digging back 85 years for fodder.

"The leader of the Conservative Party, in his then job as the president of the National Citizens Coalition, was opposed to the improvements in the Canada Pension Plan (in the 1990s) that led to its sustainability — for which he took credit at Davos in his speech last week."

By Tuesday morning, the Conservatives had heard enough. The majority voted to limit debate on second reading of Bill C-25 to two more days.

"That they're willing to delay and obstruct that and not allow it to go forward to a vote is really surprising to me," said Peter Van Loan, the government House leader.

But after only a single day of parliamentary debate, there had been no evidence of obstruction, only opposition MPs doing what they're paid to do.

The Harper government has limited debate on legislation 13 times since it won its majority last May according to the NDP.

While debate was curtailed on a number of previous Conservative bills because they were highly contentious or time sensitive, the pooled registered pension is not.

"Probably they are worried about the seniors' reaction to this," Turmel said when asked about why "time allocation" was invoked so quickly.

"Already, we have seen reaction from their own voters on this issue about pension."

Harper having raised pension reforms himself out of the blue last week, the issue appears to be a topic his Conservative government no longer wants to discuss.

Loading Slideshow...
  • Big Canada Pension Plan Changes Coming In 2012

    Ottawa is bringing in a raft of new or tweaked policies to reflect that retirement these days is more of a gradual transition for many people rather than a single event. Many of these changes either begin in 2012 or are entering the next phase-in period, and they'll have a direct impact on the retirement plans of Canadians. In some cases, the changes are big enough that people nearing retirement may want to have a chat with a financial adviser before deciding exactly when to apply for a CPP retirement pension. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images) <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • 1. Early CPP, Lower Benefits

    The first change involves payment rates. People can choose to take a CPP retirement pension as early as age 60. But there's a catch: A 0.5 per cent reduction in the pension payout for each month before age 65 that someone begins receiving it. That translates into a retirement benefit that's 30 per cent less at age 60 that it would be if you waited until 65. Starting in 2012, Ottawa is beginning to phase in a bigger reduction to get that early access. For 2012, the penalty rises to 0.52 per cent per month -- or a 31.2 per cent reduction for someone who starts receiving their retirement pension at age 60. The early-bird reduction will continue to rise until 2016, when it hits 0.6 per cent per month, or a maximum 36 per cent reduction for those who start receiving CPP payments at age 60 rather than waiting until they reach 65. (Getty)

  • 2. Later CPP, Bigger Benefits

    Similarly, those who wait until after the age of 65 to start collection CPP will get a bigger increase in their retirement benefit. Before 2011, the rules stated that the CPP retirement benefit was boosted by 0.5 per cent for each month after age 65 that an individual put off receiving it. So someone who waited until age 70 would enjoy a 30 per cent boost in their payments. But starting in 2011, the government began to phase in a gradual increase to that delay bonus. For 2012, the increase for each month after 65 that a person delays applying for CPP goes to 0.64 per cent -- or a maximum increase of 38.4 per cent for those who start receiving a pension at age 70. By 2013, the maximum bonus moves to 42 per cent. These changes won't affect people who are already receiving CPP benefits. They are being made, according to Service Canada, to restore these adjustments to "actuarially fair levels," so there are "no unfair advantages or disadvantages to early or late take-up of CPP retirement benefits." (Getty)

  • 3. Drop-Out Years Increase

    Canadians currently don't need to contribute to the CPP every year from age 18 to age 65 to get a full CPP retirement pension. When someone's average earnings over their contributory period are calculated, 15 per cent of their lowest earning years are automatically ignored when the calculation is made. For someone who takes their CPP retirement pension at age 65, that means seven years of low or zero earnings are dropped from the equation. But starting in 2012, that "general drop-out provision," as it's called, goes up to 16 per cent. For someone eligible for CPP benefits in 2012, that will allow up to 7.5 years of the lowest earnings to be excluded from the calculations -- boosting the retirement benefit paid. In 2014, the percentage will rise again to 17 per cent, which will allow up to eight years of low earnings to be dropped. These changes can really benefit people who entered the workforce late, who were unemployed for a long time, or took time off to go back to school. One point to note is that there are separate drop-out provisions specifically for time spent out of the workforce because of disability or to have children. (Alamy)

  • 4. 'Work Cessation Test' Dropped

    CPP rules used to require that someone stop or drastically reduce the amount they earned during the two consecutive months before they began to receive a CPP retirement pension. This was, for many Canadians, an annoying and costly requirement -- especially since so many people now ease into retirement instead of stopping work completely. Now, that rule is history. Beginning in 2012, the "work cessation test" has been eliminated. (<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/misteraitch/" target="_hplink">Flickr: misteraitch</a>)

  • 5. Post-Retirement Benefits

    There's another rule change that's important for semi-retirees to be aware of. Before 2012, if someone started receiving a CPP retirement pension early -- say, at age 62 -- they didn't have to make any CPP contributions if they decided to collect payments but also keep working after age 62. Starting this year, if you are under age 65 and continue to work while also drawing a retirement pension, you and your employer must make CPP contributions. The good news for employees is that these extra contributions will be credited to what's called a Post-Retirement Benefit (PRB), which will result in a higher CPP retirement pension in the year after you make contributions to your PRB. This measure is a nod to the reality that many "retired" Canadians are still working. Canadians who continue working after age 65 and are receiving a retirement benefit will have the choice of whether or not they want to make CPP contributions. If they choose to make them, their employer must kick in their share too. Those additional contributions will go towards higher benefits beginning the year after the PRB contributions. (<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/elwillo/" target="_hplink">Flickr: Keith Williamson</a>)

  • 6. Premiums And Benefits Rise

    CPP benefits are always adjusted to reflect the rising cost of living. For 2012, the increase in benefits is 2.8 per cent. That will bring the maximum monthly CPP retirement pension to $986.67. Contribution rates are unchanged. But since the yearly earnings maximum that the rate applies to is going up, the maximum annual contribution will rise by about $89 in 2012 to $2,306.70 for both employees and employers. (<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/redvers/" target="_hplink">Flickr:R/DV/RS</a>)

FOLLOW HUFFPOST CANADA POLITICS

OTTAWA - The Conservative government's move Tuesday to curtail debate on legislation creating a new pooled pension plan illustrated some of the potentially scalding political perils of retirement refo...
OTTAWA - The Conservative government's move Tuesday to curtail debate on legislation creating a new pooled pension plan illustrated some of the potentially scalding political perils of retirement refo...
Filed by Michael Bolen  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 51
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
01:07 PM on 02/02/2012
This is so sad... This is the result of letting government be run by people who hate government and don't want to have an efficient and effective government. No dissent, no debate & no opinions.

Welcome to Canada, circa 2012 AD;
02:49 AM on 02/02/2012
Harper: "younger generations expect us to ensure the system is viable for them."

Those about to start pensions today are the younger generation of yesteryear.
We were fed this same bag of baloney decades ago.

This is is as much to do with redistributing wealth to corporations much foreign
owned and wringing money out of the poorest Canadians.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
09:59 AM on 02/01/2012
This is really a non-issue and I suggest that everyone read what the article actually said:

"While opposition parties have dismissed "Pooled Registered Pension Plans" as missing the mark or redundant, the critiques have been relatively mild. The proposal offers an additional way for Canadians to save for retirement, which few can condemn.

"This is really just another group RRSP," NDP critic Irene Mathyssen complained Tuesday in the House of Commons. "It has none of the benefits of the Canada Pension Plan."

But as parliamentarians returned from a six-week break, debate on the legislation has provided opposition MPs a venue to tee off on a far more contentious notion — tinkering with Old Age Security."
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
waldopepper
I'd tell you all about me if you were my friend.
04:16 AM on 02/01/2012
How do you like him now?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
10:00 AM on 02/01/2012
Love him!

From a 70s Canadian Senior.
01:47 AM on 02/01/2012
It's such a stupid idea and no ones going use it because there's no benefit to doing so, so if the guys got a majority who cares if he cuts off dabate. Got to admit though, it sure is a stupid idea.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
10:01 AM on 02/01/2012
So you don't have RRSPs or take advantage of the annual $5000 tax-free deduction?
12:32 AM on 02/01/2012
this guy will destroy canada as we know it.... only 30 million people and probably the wealthest country on the face of the earth per capita ... bar none ... ok harper give it away
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
10:02 AM on 02/01/2012
But I bet you want your share?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jason Bullock
11:25 PM on 01/31/2012
Not surprised... ending debates by shutting everything down is a favourite past time of Harper;s
photo
BCSLAVE
Got a key?
09:59 PM on 01/31/2012
After 2015 we will just have to sell off all the faulty weapons and jails posing as mental hospitals Harper spent all our money one just to pay for the basic pensions, hospitals and yes true treatment centres for the mentially ill.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gravescanada
08:46 AM on 02/01/2012
You speak the truth. Well, we can always remove the bars and turn the prisons into Mental Health facilities, something that is sorely needed in every region of Canada. I suffer from Bipolar Disorder and Generalized Anxiety disorder, and it took me 5 years to get a Psychiatrist, and I get to see him a whole 4 times a year. Thankfully we have the Canadian Mental Health Association which provides help to the mentally ill. So many things we desperately need to fix, and Harper is doing none of it.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
09:49 PM on 01/31/2012
"Seniors are worried about their future, but they are also worried about the future of their children and their grandchildren," interim NDP Leader Nicole Turmel lamented Tuesday. "Our seniors have worked hard to give a better life for future generations."

Bet you these seniors aren't worried.

10. Michael Chong - $3,124,903 (2015 = $2,684,816)
9. Peter Van Loan - $3,194,114 (2015 = $2,462,029)
8. Rona Ambrose - $3,330,876 (2015 = $2,429,149)
7. Rob Anders - $3,643,873 (2015 = $3,034,089)
6. Denis Coderre - $3,701,989 (2015 = $3,288,821)
5. Scott Brison - $3,723,666 (2015 = $3,113,881)
4. James Moore - $3,795,386 (2015 = $2,893,658)
3. Gerry Byrne - $3,996,498 (2015 = $3,450,711)
2. Jason Kenney - $4,318,507 (2015 = $3,416,779)
1. Stephen Harper - $6,216,858 (2015 = $6,233,568)
07:31 AM on 02/01/2012
i is likely those pensions will be protected because they will be lumped with the OAS and "pensions"------

and public pressure will cause them to drop the OAS/pension issue ----and politicians by default

the conservatives ---aka the REFORM PARTY -----will once again be JUST BLOWING SMOKE
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
09:43 AM on 02/01/2012
It is sad that everything is so convoluted.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
10:03 AM on 02/01/2012
There is no Reform Party. Get over it already!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
06:30 PM on 01/31/2012
The debate today was to be pooled pension plans.
The NDP and Libs thought they could best spend their time arguing something completly different.
Are they having trouble staying focused or something?
Some kinda desperation induced mass alzheimer's
They do great disservice to their constituants when they cause the government to limit debate like this.
Definitely not in keeping with the best parliamentary traditions.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
01:06 AM on 02/01/2012
you havent been keeping up with politics have you?? they cut off debate on eveyrthing and anything.

and although the other parties thought it was a stupid idea, we already have an alternative, you can only stand up and repeat that so many time. we have one, it works, we dont need another. see how that took all of two seconds warren? amazing huh? The NDP n Liberals r grown ups, they addressed it in one second and moved on to something that would vastly affect Canadians far more.

yes its the opposition limiting debate not the government who imposes this and has consistently.. what an upside down view warren has of the world. "yaa the cons r the ones who call n end debates n have been on basically eveyr issue... but its the ndp and liberals who are argueing the opposite of the cons who are to blame. how dare the disagree with the fuhrer i mean PM!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
05:45 AM on 02/01/2012
When the opposition strays off topic just for an opportunity to score hits on the government. why wouldn't the goverenment limit debate (to 2 days)
They did it for the first 5 years of Harpers government and finally canadians got sick of the frigging around and awarded the conservatives a majority.
Or did you miss that part.
The libs and NDP have nothing to offer but attacks.
Everybody see's that.
Except them.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robertmiller252
10:04 AM on 02/01/2012
No! They cut off debate on the matter which was on the floor - POOLED PENSIONS.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lou on Vancouver Island
Allin, Lou: Mystery Author
06:25 PM on 01/31/2012
It breaks my heart that we are going to have to suffer through several more years of the Republicans north of the border. Stay tuned for more prisons, an attack on gay marriage, gays in the military, health care, and anything else their fascist-light hands can grab. Meanwhile tax breaks for the rich will be in vogue. This is what happens when you have four moderate to left parties. Disaster.
photo
turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
05:55 PM on 01/31/2012
The lefties are going to whine, moan and try to obstruct about any policy or program Harper and the Conservatives want to change - regardless of merit, so why waste time endlessly debating.
Harper may only have 4 years to get his programs and policies through, so he needs to get-er-done already.
06:18 PM on 01/31/2012
1985 ----mulroney tried to mess with pensions ----37 years ago ------he backed down when soulangew said touch our pensions and it ts good bye charlie brown for you ------he backed down --------the crisis was fake --------politics nothing more

so here we go again --another tory majority --another fake pension crisis ----0.7 % gdp increase to fund the baby boomers----- for 30 years ------- then the cost falls dramatically
06:19 PM on 01/31/2012
27
photo
Spanky McFarlane
ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM.
06:41 PM on 01/31/2012
The Pension Crisis maybe fake, but both Mulroney & Harper's DEFICITS are VERY REAL & costing taxpayers a hell of a lot more than his 2% Gst cut provided.

He was warned- he just refused to listen.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rob Vann
Hope for the best,Plan for the worst,Take what cms
06:22 PM on 01/31/2012
Four years? October 19, 2015 or sooner I hope.
05:16 PM on 01/31/2012
dear leader strikes again ----bet you didnt think you were voting for a dictator =
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
greysells2
grey cells matter
04:58 PM on 01/31/2012
The public will soom tire of Harper using parliamentary rules to shut other people up. Like any power, Harper will over use this ploy to his detriment. Trust always becomes an issue if the leader is not open and honest.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lou on Vancouver Island
Allin, Lou: Mystery Author
06:26 PM on 01/31/2012
How about some transparency, Harper, while you moon over Newt and Mitt?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
04:55 PM on 01/31/2012
When you want to have a discussion.
When you want to have a debate.
Stay on topic.
Steve put up with these delay tactics for 5 years.
That stuff is over.
Why would anybody in their right mind tolerate this sort of distraction and diversion when they didn't have to.
Now the ball is in the oppositions court.
Engage in a sensible debate or be relegated to sitting on the sidelines.
Its ain't like Steve's not giving you plenty to work with. lol
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gravescanada
08:55 AM on 02/01/2012
Prime Minister Harper has no respect for Parliament or Democracy. This is the same government that prorogued Parliament for two months, killing a pesky inquiry into Afghan detainees. Harper then prorogued Parliament in December, 2008, to avoid a no-confidence vote.

Prorogation of parliament occurs several times in each Parliament. This is because it can occur in between all sittings. It is the mechanism by which a sitting is ended. For example, at a Christmas break or summer holiday break. In general, once a government feels that is has accomplished most of its plans from the current session, it requests a prorogation. With a prorogation, the government can then re-cast its plans and agendas, and set a new plan in a new speech from the throne in the next session. It is, however, rare to prorogue parliament for other reasons. It has only been done 4 times in the history of Canada for other reasons.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_has_Harper_prorogued_parliament_and_how_many_times_has_parliament_been_prorogued_before
goleafsgo
A Lie stands on one leg, Truth on two.
09:56 AM on 02/01/2012
Steve?