Conservatives To Limit Debate On Gun Registry Bill

Long Gun Registry

First Posted: 02/ 6/2012 12:13 pm Updated: 02/ 8/2012 4:35 pm


The bill to end the long-gun registry was back for debate in the House of Commons, but not for long.


Bill C-19 is now at the report stage after being studied by the Public Safety committee. The government gave notice Monday night it would move time allocation, which will limit the amount of time the bill can be debated.


A vote on a motion to invoke time allocation passed Tuesday morning, allowing for one more day of debate at the report stage. The debate on report stage was to wrap up late Tuesday. The time allocation motion also calls for two days of debate on the third and final reading of the bill but the government has not confirmed what days MPs will have their last chance to debate the controversial issue before it goes to the Senate.


When the bill was first introduced in the fall the government also moved a motion for time allocation and the bill went quickly to committee.


Government House leader Peter Van Loan has said he wants it passed by mid-February.


The House committee finished its hearings on the controversial bill at the end of November but MPs haven't had the chance to deal with it since. The bill was sent back to the Commons with no amendments made by the committee.


The NDP members had tried to make amendments — to maintain registration for some guns, such as sniper rifles — but they were shot down by Conservative MPs who hold a majority on the committee.


Now MPs are trying again to change the bill at its report stage. Ten motions for amending the bill were put forward and seconded by New Democrat, Liberal, and Bloc Québécois MPs as well as Green Party Leader Elizabeth May.


Those motions were debated Monday including a proposal by NDP MP Jack Harris to delete the short title of the bill — "ending the long-gun registry act" — because he said it is "inaccurate."


Harris said a separate long-gun registry doesn't exist — there is a national gun registry and long guns are part of it.


Harris suggested the bill should be renamed the "risking public safety act" because "that's in fact what this legislation, Bill C-19 does."


'Playing with lives of people'


NDP MP Charlie Angus said abolishing the long-gun registry would lead to more deaths and violence.


"They're playing with the lives of people here," he said, and he accused the government of lying about statistics on homicide and suicide rates.


Government and opposition MPs accused each other of perpetuating myths related to the registry during Monday's debate.


Conservative MPs made the government's case, including Candice Hoeppner who tried before to eliminate the long-gun portion of the registry with a private member's bill.


Angus originally voted in favour of that bill and later on subsequent votes he sided with his own party. Hoeppner took aim at him Monday and said in response to his comments that he had betrayed his constituents in northern Ontario.


All of the motions being debated propose that various clauses in the bill be deleted.


A range of witnesses appeared at the public safety committee during the five meetings it spent on the bill last fall, including representatives from hunting and sports shooting groups, legal and policy experts, police groups and gun-control advocates.


Destruction of data


The bill seeks to eliminate the requirement for gun owners to register their long guns and other weapons that are not restricted or prohibited. It also provides for the destruction of records that are currently held in the Canadian Firearms Registry, a measure that caught many off-guard when the bill was introduced in October.


Opposition MPs were angry that the government is destroying the data, saying the records should remain intact for police or the provinces to use in the event they want to establish their own registry once the federal one is gone.


The government wants to scrap the registry because it says it is a waste of money, ineffective at improving public safety and preventing crimes and it targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals. Getting rid of the registry means getting rid of the information in it, the government has said in defending the move to destroy the data.


About 7.1 million non-restricted firearms were registered in the database as of September.


Related on HuffPost:

Loading Slideshow...
  • What does this new bill on the gun registry do?

    We keep hearing about scrapping the long-gun registry, but really what we're talking about is scrapping the requirement for people to register their rifles and shotguns - that's what Bill C-19 aims to do by making amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. Once passed, people will not have to register their non-restricted or non-prohibited firearms. It also provides for the destruction of existing records in the Canadian Firearms Registry for those firearms. <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • What exactly is the registry?

    It's a centralized database overseen by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that links firearms with their licensed owners. It contains information about all three types of guns that must be registered - non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. (All firearms must be registered.) To register a firearm, you have to have a licence to possess it.

  • Does the bill make any changes to licensing requirements?

    No. Canadian residents need a licence in order to possess and register a firearm or ammunition and that won't change. There are a couple of different kinds of licences because of various changes to laws and regulations over the years.

  • What are long guns?

    There are three types of guns under Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Most common long guns - rifles and shotguns - are non-restricted but there are a few exceptions. A sawed-off shotgun, for example, is a prohibited firearm. A handgun is an example of a restricted firearm. Different regulations apply to different classifications of firearms.

  • How many guns are we talking about?

    As of September 2011, there were about 7.8 million registered guns. Of those, 7.1 million are non-restricted firearms.

  • Why does the government want to get rid of the long-gun registry?

    The government says it is wasteful and ineffective at reducing crime and targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals, who don't register their firearms.

  • Who wants to keep it?

    Police and victims' groups are big supporters of the registry. Police say the database helps them evaluate a potential safety threat when they pull a vehicle over or are called to a residence. They also say it helps support police investigations because the registry can help determine if a gun was stolen, illegally imported, acquired or manufactured. This year, the RCMP says police agencies accessed it on average more than 17,000 times a day.

  • When will the registry cease to exist?

    The government has passed the legislation and the registry no longer exists. Except for in Quebec, where an ongoing court challenge means the owners must still register their guns in the province.

  • Why does the government want to destroy the records?

    The government is doing this to ensure that no future non-Conservative government can recreate the registry. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has also made it clear that if any province wants to set up its own registry it would get no help from the federal government. The Conservatives are so fundamentally opposed to the existence of the records, because they say they focus on law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, that they don't want them available for anyone to use.

  • How much does the registry cost?

    The registry cost more than $1 billion to set up in 1995 and the cost was the source of much controversy. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Oct. 25 that the government's best estimate is that it costs about $22 million a year to operate. That's the entire registry, not just the long-gun portion, but he noted most of the guns in the registry are long guns. He said he didn't know how much money scrapping the requirement to register long guns would save the government. Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner says there are also "hidden costs" that are borne by provincial and municipal police agencies to enforce the registry.

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The bill to end the long-gun registry was back for debate in the House of Commons, but not for long. Bill C-19 is now at the report stage after being studied by the Public Saf...
The bill to end the long-gun registry was back for debate in the House of Commons, but not for long. Bill C-19 is now at the report stage after being studied by the Public Saf...
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
07:07 PM on 02/07/2012
How much power do you want the cops and prosecutors to have over you?

"But back to my original question: Just when was Ian Thomson guilty of unsafe storage?

Was it when three masked thugs began lobbing Molotov cocktails at his secluded rural home, while also shouting death threats in a pre-dawn assault? That’s when he ran to his locked gun safe, retrieved one of his legally registered pistols and loaded it with ammunition.

Or was he guilty of unsafe storage when one of the bombs set fire to his veranda and another broke through his kitchen window? That’s when he went outside and fired three times — once at the feet and twice over the heads of his attackers — in a successful attempt to ward them off.

Or was he guilty of unsafe storage when he then ran back into his home, got a second locked-up gun, loaded it and left it on his bed? Not knowing whether his attackers would return, he wanted to be sure he was prepared, so he decided to fortify his bedroom as his last line of defence. Was that unsafe in prosecutors’ opinion?"

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/01/lorne-gunter-why-hang-ian-thomson-for-the-crime-of-protecting-himself/
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
07:05 PM on 02/07/2012
"Harper is an evil dictator who is going to enslave us all, let's give him our guns!"

Liberal logic?
02:54 PM on 02/07/2012
What's worse than spending billions on a gun registry? Destroying all the information gathered which cost the billions of dollars. Aren't the cons now worse as they are about to destroy billions of dollars worth of data?
If it's so bad to spend all that money collecting the data, I would think it's worse to now waste all that money by now destroying the data?
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turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
05:54 PM on 02/07/2012
Think about it..
Data will become quickly outdated as citizens with gun licenses buy and/or sell long arms, or move, etc.
Whats the point of having data if you're not going to keep it up to date???????
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colpy
06:05 PM on 02/07/2012
The gun registry promise was a plank in the Conservative platform. The promise made was to "dismantle the long gun registry". The data collected IS the registry, and so must be destroyed to the registry to be "dismantled".

I know it comes as a serious shock to the Liberal/NDP supporters, but the Conservatives are doing EXACTLY what they were elected to do. Such a concept may be foreign, and unusual, but I'm afraid you'll have to get used to it.

It is called "The will of the people".

:) Wonderful, Isn't it????
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Jerry Bourbon
01:50 PM on 02/07/2012
Freedom wins one. Good for you, Canada. Now if you would just stop censoring "hate speech", you might actually qualify to be a free country.
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DirkNeptune
I love raspberry pie, damn it.
06:37 PM on 02/07/2012
Yes that's what we need more "hate speech."

Then let's make sure we put more unregistered guns in the hands of the people who spout hate speech.

I feel freer just thinking about it.
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colpy
08:38 PM on 02/07/2012
Obviously, you don't have a clue what Liberty is.......allow me to educate you.

Liberty is the right to keep arms, the right to enjoy property without fear of uncompensated confiscation, the right to have legal items without surrendering your right to be free from unreasonable search, and the right to expect the gov't to fulfill their election promises.

Liberty is also the right to express opinions and put forth political views not previously approved by brain-dead, politically correct Nanny-state morons, or having those views later judged by gov't instituted kangaroo courts run by the same group of dangerous statist control freaks previously listed.......

Thank God you people don't run the country, or freedom would simply be a concept in the dictionary.
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Jerry Bourbon
11:20 AM on 02/08/2012
Living in fear of WORDS is just no way to go through life, son.
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Spanky McFarlane
ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM.
01:05 PM on 02/07/2012
Yet another 'gag order'on Parliament as the Cons shoehorn yet another piece ofbad legislation.
This will only serve to lengthen police investigations & associated costs, along withmaking Courtroom trials & subsequent appeals equally long all while decreasing the likelihood of convictions when crime is omitted.with a long gun. Well done Conservatives!

'Sam Steel' must be spinning in his grave about now.
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turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
06:00 PM on 02/07/2012
I'm still waiting for someone to give us real life examples where and when the Registry has prevented or solved a crime or saved or protected anyone.
There has to be a lot of law enforcement types who frequent this forum. Surely one of them could come up with something that might get those of us who percieve the Registry as useless and wasteful to change our minds.
But, so far, nothing but the chirping of crickets.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
07:09 PM on 02/07/2012
You will be waiting forever, all these fools can do is spout their lies, when you ask for proof they are astounded that anyone would think they needed proof to back up their silly little liberal opinions.
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Jerry Bourbon
11:21 AM on 02/08/2012
I hope you are not in a hurry...
12:54 PM on 02/07/2012
they have to restrict legitimate debate -----

they have only about 1000 days left to bring canada back to the 14th century
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colpy
01:28 PM on 02/07/2012
Sixteen years of debate. I think that is enough.

Vote after vote where the Liberals, NDP, Bloc beat some of their caucus into submission with the whip or intense pressure.

I think everyone interested is well aware of the issues, and of the solution that will be applied, and of the problems some of the opposition have with the solution offered.

But the Bill is NOT going to change. That is the will of the Canadian people.

Time to move on.

Debate has to end sometime.
01:33 PM on 02/07/2012
the debate has been prolonged by your side -it should have stopped years ago
02:55 PM on 02/07/2012
Only the criminals with illegal firearms wanted the gun registry scrapped. CRIMINALS.
But somehow you feel it is your right to bear arms, if you want that right so bad colpy move to the US, we will be happy to see you go.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
07:10 PM on 02/07/2012
What were the gun laws in the 14th century?
Did a man have the right to defend himself?
08:09 PM on 02/07/2012
fail
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turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
12:51 PM on 02/07/2012
It is reported that Police agencies access the Registry 17,000 times per day or 6,205,000 times per year.
1. You have to ask yourself why the Police would need to access the registry 6.2 million times per year.
2. I would think that with the Registry being accessed that many times, there should be mountains of documentation which would support the notion that the Registry has prevented crime or solved crimes or saved potential victims from registered long arms and properly licenced gun owners.
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north of 60
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
04:02 PM on 02/07/2012
Anytime the police access their data base the gun registry is automatically accessed. This can be as trivial as running the license plate number on an illegally parked car.

Anytime police attend a situation they always assume loaded firearms are present. The gun registry adds no useful information.

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control, and about winning the votes of people who don't understand the issue.
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turkeylurky
Just keepin it real........
05:41 PM on 02/07/2012
So you are saying that the police would approach a citizen, who is a licenced gun owner and has registered long guns, for say, a traffic violation, differently than how they would approach a driver who does not possess a firearms license?
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
07:15 PM on 02/07/2012
Exactly, funny how after all those billions and gazillions of uses no one can find an example of it doing any good.
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colpy
12:31 PM on 02/07/2012
YES!!!!!

It is about time.

The long gun registry has been extensively debated in this country for more than sixteen YEARS......we all know what everybody thinks, we all know what needs to be done.

Get on with it.

Then lets deal with the rest of the Firearms Act.....as the actual registry was far from the worst aspect of it........

Oh, and I have a suggestion on how to avoid confusion about the separation of long guns and handguns in the registry........dump it all. One is as useless as the other.

Strict, graduated licensing of owners is all the gun control we need.
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piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
11:57 AM on 02/07/2012
It's taken how long to get to this point? Hopefully they will take as long to deal with the CPP and the OAS. The next election is closer than they think!