Parents Upset By Quebec Ethics Class Ruling

Religion

First Posted: 02/18/2012 3:07 pm Updated: 02/22/2012 7:26 am


A coalition of Christian groups is disappointed by a Supreme Court of Canada ruling that will prevent their children from opting out of a controversial religion and ethics course in Quebec.


On Friday, Canada's highest court ruled that the mandatory course does not infringe on the charter rights of a Quebec couple that launched a legal battle to pull their son from class.


The Drummondville, Que. couple in the case believe the course curriculum interferes with their ability to pass on their faith to their children, and violates their freedom of religion.


In its unanimous decision, the Supreme Court disagreed, and issued a verdict that upholds a lower Quebec court decision refusing to grant an exemption to the family's child.


The head of the Catholic Parents Association, Jean Morse-Chevrier, said parents belonging to her group feel let down.


"What we're hoping is that the Quebec minister of education will revisit their attitude towards this course," he said.


Parents Morse-Chevrier works with will start gathering evidence that the course harms their children, in the hopes they can pursue legal action again at a future time, he said.


The parents who launched the case said Friday that the court decision could have serious consequences.


"My son is in fourth grade and he already asks questions about his own religion and I find it sad that it's happening at such a young age," said S.L., the mother who can only be identified by her initials, because of a publication ban.


She and her supporters say the course trivializes faith by treating students to a religious buffet.


"There's a time for everything and I think that teaching about other religions should be done a little later, when the kids are a little older."


S.L. said her family, and other parents may consider another legal challenge.


The family filed a suit against the schoolboard and the Quebec government, but failed to convince a Quebec Superior Court justice to grant the exemptions.


The province's Court of Appeal refused to hear the case. Quebec introduced the ethics and religious culture curriculum to replace the former Protestant and Catholic religious courses for all students except those in Grade 9.


The government billed the course as a way of fostering harmonious relations among students of different backgrounds, and of introducing them to religious practices and traditions from around the world as well as from Quebec.


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ZenSufi
Sisters and Brothers of America!
07:01 AM on 02/23/2012
This is Obama's fault.
08:34 AM on 02/20/2012
Guess you'll have to teach your kids to hate gay people and women who use birth control on your own time?

Suck it up Christian Conservatives...suck it up.
08:24 AM on 02/19/2012
The reason these religious groups don't want kids learning about their religion, is because these religious groups don't teach the parents about their religion.

Nothing is taught about the history of the Bible and how there are numerous other gospels that were not included by Emperor Constantine who refused to be baptized until his death bed so he could continue killing and sinning.

Nothing is taught about how Jesus's story resembles that of Osiris/Dionysus/Mithra.

Nothing is taught about how the "Bible Stories" are all retellings of even older Greek, Egyptian and Sumerian myths.

There is a reason churches fight tooth and nail to get kids between the age of 5 and 14 into church and expose them to nothing other than their dogma. You do that, and you've got a Christian for life. Children are genetically predisposed to listen to their elders. Why? When we're born we have no fear, and we need the wisdom of our Elders to ensure we survive.

Any kid having any religion before he's 16 is child indoctrination, and should be punished as child abuse.
06:40 PM on 02/19/2012
couldnt of said it better myself
07:36 AM on 02/19/2012
Children need to learn critical thinking skills . there is nothing wrong with teaching children about other religions. They are all a bunch of nonsense anyway, hopefully by teaching them all faiths kids will realize its all a bunch of made up crap.
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Sofia Champion
The future is now.
01:33 AM on 02/19/2012
Forcing your faith onto your child is infringing on their freedom of religion. They should be exposed to as many ideas as they can, and be free to make their own decisions based on their own reasoning, not what their parents forced down their throat.

I have atheist parents, but they never talked badly about religion to me when I was a kid. They never told me "God doesn't exist" or "Christians are dumb". I was allowed to make those decisions for myself. My sister openly experimented with religion and they permitted that without any interference. I think that's how it should be done with everyone.
Rantibus
Cogito, Ergo Rant
01:30 AM on 02/19/2012
Perhaps the parents are only opining the fact that the course does not promote THEIR religion over others. Such a cardinal sin - to admit that there are other religions and that they may have something valid to say. Can't have that if you're a Catholic...
01:39 AM on 02/19/2012
Not true. All they want is to not talk about religion AT ALL. But I guess that's too much to ask in a secular society.
08:36 AM on 02/20/2012
Yes. Yes it is.
11:01 PM on 02/18/2012
Read the first chapter of Christopher Hitchens', "God Is Not Great",
and you will soon see the sham that is religion.
I don't bother to be an agnostic or atheist, as that requires religious thought.
Rather, I remain an apatheist; I don't care if your god exists or does not exist.
On a daily basis, I do not think of any god or any religion.
I also have absolutely no use for the dogma of religious ideology coming from
the mouths of our elected politicians.
.
09:52 PM on 02/18/2012
My parents may have gotten a lot of things wrong, but they did one thing for me that I will be eternally grateful for: from earliest childhood, anytime I had a question about religion, they would plunk me down in front of the encyclopedias in our home library. I was given a list of world religions, and was told to learn about what each one said on the matter, and to make up my own mind.
I attended Catholic school briefly when I was a bit older, and was subjected to all manner of threats, derisive comments, and fear-mongering when I dared to question what we were being taught as "truth", and had I not had the knowledge of all the world's beliefs behind me, I imagine I might have actually succumbed to peer pressure and the threats from teachers and nuns and actually followed a religion I didn't agree with. I seriously worry about any faith that encourages people not to question, and just follow like good, quiet, obedient sheep... lest they be tortured in some netherworld for all eternity.
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geminivoyager
11:27 PM on 02/18/2012
Your parents were fair and wise. If only all parents were like that.
01:05 AM on 02/19/2012
So basically you have no knowledge about any religion whatsoever and you're proud of that. Funny how everybody who doesn't have a clue about religion has very strong opinions about it. Typical mediocrity.
08:44 AM on 02/19/2012
Sounds like he has more knowledge than many, since he examined questions from multiplie "religous" points of view, not limiting himself to Christianity.

Futhermore, he experienced Catholic school by attending. His accounts are first hand.

When you take the supernatural mumbo-jumbo out of religion, it basically boils down to compassion. We need to bypass the invisible scorekeeper, and become compassionate for all the right reasons.
08:56 PM on 02/18/2012
Shielding them from the fact that not all people believe the way they do or that "God" forbid, the childs forced religious beliefs may not be correct, is not going to serve them well in the "Real" world. I feel bad for the abuse these children are going thru and the parents should be ashamed of themselves. I hope this does not scar them in their growing years and they develop into Free thinking individuals. I hope they keep the course and all kids can attend to attain a more open mind and perspective.
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Blodo
Time to build a better world
08:52 PM on 02/18/2012
"My son is in fourth grade and he already asks questions about his own religion and I find it sad that it's happening at such a young age,"

Madam, you should be overjoyed and proud. Your son is asking questions about the world and about human beliefs. May the need to ask questions, however challenging, become his lifelong habit.
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Vere15
Vero nihil verious (nothing truer than truth)
09:26 PM on 02/18/2012
Absolutely - most of the greatest religious partisan thinkers who had a profound and positive influence were those who asked questions - from a Christian point of view strangely enough, they include many of the heros of the Bible
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Vere15
Vero nihil verious (nothing truer than truth)
08:14 PM on 02/18/2012
A course that deals with the central tenets of world religions is essential to education as a whole.

It gives a decoder for symbols in literature, philosophy, theology, economics, sociology. It provides an avenue of understanding the world abroad as well as our changing environment in Canada.

However there are three caveats:

1. The class should not to be designed to suggest we are evolving toward or away or from one religion to another. That is not the point.

2.The ciriculum cannot be lazy. There are layers of stereotypes which have polarized relationships between people of much faith, little faith and no faith. Here are three examples but there are many more

a) We may be surprised to find that folks like Southern Baptist evangelicals may be neither southern, hardly Baptist and certainly not evangelicals.

b)We may discover that over the two millenia, the Catholic church has certainly not been a monolith and has considerably different emphases in different parts of the world.

c) Unlike some well known politicians, we may realize that their are various strands of Islam which affect relationships within and outside their faith.

3. Finally, it must be recognized that people of religion are products of a number of factors in their society around them where both profound goodness and evil can be found.
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Blodo
Time to build a better world
08:53 PM on 02/18/2012
Excellent post and sober, reflective caveats. Thanks.
10:58 PM on 02/18/2012
I agree wholeheartedly, but I do wonder if grade four is too young. At that point a child is what, nine yeas old? Is a child ready to understand the complexities of religion and it's role in society at that point?

Just to reiterate, I believe that a course focused on world religions, ethics and their intermingling isn't just a good idea, it's a fundamental foundation for youth in today's world, and hopefully a step towards greater tolerance and understanding for the next generation. My question is whether this type of course would be more effective as series of courses, with the first two being mandatory for grade 9-10 students, plus the option to continue with additional courses throughout the rest of highschool.

I'm quite curious as to what people think, and the rationale behind those thoughts.
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Vere15
Vero nihil verious (nothing truer than truth)
11:10 PM on 02/18/2012
Point appreciated and taken
08:54 AM on 02/19/2012
Intelligent and thoughtful analysis.

Frankly, I would have found such a class in grade 4 incredibly interesting, but I was always a nerd :)
jimbo57
ni dieu ni maitre
07:30 PM on 02/18/2012
The function of this course is to give students fact-based information about the major world religions., ie what these folks believe. If you want your kids to be taught that your own personal faith is true and everybody else is full of crap, you need to move to another province or consider home-schooling.
01:09 AM on 02/19/2012
Oh really? My son's assignment for this week is to find the analogies between a famous painting of the Last Supper and a picture of the characters in the Mario game. I think this is highly educational and will help build his personality on the long run
06:34 PM on 02/18/2012
The solution is to have private schools for the teaching of religion (e.g. after school classes for those who want them) AND to avoid the topic altogether. Teach about human rights instead.
In the primary division education has to be age specific and the subject matter has to be relevant to life experience¬. Kids are not ready for this type of thinking or reflection; hec, most adults aren’t. The parents who objected know that the basic life lessons are learned during the daily rituals of home life - usually during the first 12 or so years of life (before the capacity for abstract reasoning starts to function in most cases). Some may call this indoctrination. It is simply how life is ... we learn basic stuff at Mom and Dad’s knee. Hence public education should eschew any truck with things metaphysic¬al. Stick with the Enlightenm¬ent and Charters of Human Rights ... e.g. tell them of campaigns that arise out of Medecin Sans Frontieres or Amnesty International or ... anything dealing with equity and human rights, e.g. issues dealing with refugees. Tell them about Socrates, Spinoza, Marcel and Maimonides etc – start with simple things ... but keep them thinking about THINKING things and not belief systems; as children become more able they can face the challenges of healing and repairing our precious world. At a certain level kids are ready for logic and philosophy; these tools will enable the flourishing of abstract reasoning when the time is ripe.
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Vere15
Vero nihil verious (nothing truer than truth)
09:52 PM on 02/18/2012
Good point - I would put it this way - no matter how you look at - whether a partisan or unaffiliated or tacit believer, an agnostic, an athiest, or someone who simply doesn't care - we are inescapably knit into a world involves the individual, our society and the planet we live on.

However that works out - it is an opportunity for everyone to testify to the value of their belief system to make a positive impact on their own growth and with their classmates. For some this may be more awkward than others. But it is a worthwhile social endevour and why put it off until it is too late.

There is an irony here as well. Belief partisans, particularly Christians may be surprised to find that during Biblical and post-Biblical times, success in truly inculcating beliefs happened in participation as an in engaged citizen in the marketplace of ideas, behaviour and results.

Finally, Jesus spent his childhood and much of his ministry far from the protected surroundings of the religious epicentre Jerusalem (although their Jewish friends could with some rationale say tongue in cheek, that this was the problem).
06:28 PM on 02/18/2012
Oh boy ... teaching understanding and tolerance / acceptance about mankind's various and febrile attempts to definitely answer the big questions. I note that in a public school setting, with a mixed student population in the primary division where most children have yet to reach the capacity for abstract reasoning anything dealing with religion or values or absolutist stances is problematic. What if in a school setting a young child, say a Palestinian Christian, learns that his parents or grandparents were pushed out of their home in the West Bank (occupied territory) by the settlers (who settled unopposed by the Israeli government and that this was the will of G*d because He gave this promised land to Jews and this according to a system of belief in a well respected and culturally rich tradition ... this child would be subject to cognitive dissonance regarding a worthy faith and his parents’ suffering. A similar dissonance would occur to a Jewish child who would learn that his parents / grandparents or his People settled on land that belonged to someone else. One might feel a loss of worth in the eyes of the others; the other might acquire a sense of supremacy. None of this would be good.
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bigmovieman
living free without the 1st and 2nd amendment
06:20 PM on 02/18/2012
"My son is in fourth grade and he already asks questions about his own religion and I find it sad that it's happening at such a young age,"

Yes it is sad that your kid is starting to break away from indoctrination and begin to think for himself. I mean we can't let those of weak mind start thinking, that would be a sin against god. I say burn him at the stake!

[Sarcasm]