F-35 Canada: Tories Change Talking Points On Fighter Jet Purchase Ahead Of Allied Meeting

First Posted: 02/29/2012 5:12 pm Updated: 03/ 2/2012 10:02 am

F35 Canada Fantino
The Conservative government of Canada is sounding decidedly less hawkish on its planned purchase of stealth fighters as it heads into a critical meeting with allies in Washington on the future of the controversial F-35 program.

OTTAWA - The Conservative government is sounding decidedly less hawkish on its planned purchase of stealth fighters as it heads into a critical meeting with allies in Washington on the future of the controversial F-35 program.

Despite months of heavy opposition fire, Julian Fantino — the associate defence minister and the government's point man on the troubled fighter file — has stuck faithfully to the Tory script: the costly planes are necessary for the men and women of Canada's military. Period.

That script, however, has been tweaked.

"All I can say, repeatedly, is that we are in fact engaged with all of our partners in this particular issue," Fantino said Wednesday in the House of Commons.

"No contracts have been signed."

The fact Canada is potentially a year — maybe two — away from signing on the dotted line with Lockheed Martin Corp. is not something the Conservatives were eager to trumpet as they stumped around the country trying to convince supporters, opponents and taxpayers to accept the eye-popping $9-billion price tag.

Canada's apparent enthusiasm — despite soaring costs, delays, and technical glitches — even caught the attention of the U.S. media. The Dallas-Fort Worth Star wryly noted last fall that Canada seemed more committed to the F-35 than the U.S. did.

Conservative sources with knowledge of the file say there has been a deliberate pivot in strategy, one meant to acknowledge the obvious: The F-35 is "a developmental aircraft, a developmental program; it's not really a procurement and we don't have a contract."

That does not mean the Conservatives are in any way less committed to buying the plane, the sources added.

It might, for a while at least, relieve some of the political pain the Conservatives have been feeling, including growing alarm among caucus members about the barrage of screaming headlines from the U.S. on the program's mounting cost and its many glitches.

Both the NDP and Liberals have been relentless and gleeful in their assault on the Conservative position, rising almost every day in the House of Commons to point out flaws and mock Fantino for reading from a talking-points script.

The meeting among allied nations, slated for Friday at the Canadian Embassy in Washington, came about partly after Fantino spoke with his Italian and Norwegian counterparts who have similar concerns, said one of the Conservative sources.

The one-day session is a precursor to a larger meeting in Australia in a few weeks.

One of the biggest concerns for the United States is the estimated life-time sustainment costs of the radar-evading jet. It's been estimated that servicing the American fleet of 2,243 aircraft could cost up to $1 trillion over 50 years.

New figures from the Pentagon suggest operational costs on Canada's fleet of 65 fighters could run in the range of US$14 billion, depending upon how long the country chooses to fly them.

The estimate bolsters a report last year by parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page, which challenged the Harper government and the Defence Department's claim that it would cost in the neighbourhood of US$7 billion over 20 years to keep the jets aloft.

Page's assessment, released prior to the last election, was dismissed as inaccurate speculation.

But the U.S. Defence Department quietly noted earlier last week that the F-35 will cost about US$30,000 per hour to fly and maintain over the decades it's expected to be in service.

When those figures are calculated for the Royal Canadian Air Force, it works out to US$7.2 million per aircraft per year — or US$468 million annually for the entire fleet.

How long the multi-role fighters are to remain in service was a point of bitter dispute between Page and defence officials, with the federal government insisting the planes would only see two decades of action.

If that is the case, the maintenance bill could run as low as US$9.3 billion, a total that's still far higher than the numbers National Defence has chosen to use.

The price tag climbs to US $14.04 billion for three decades of use, which is what Page estimated in his controversial report.

The budget watchdog also tossed in an extra $5 billion for the inevitable overhaul and upgrades each aircraft would need after at least 20 years of flying — bringing his grand total to $19 billion.

The calculation is based on the F-35s flying an average of 240 hours per year.

Observers say the only way the air force could meet its projections would be if the F-35s are flown much less than the existing squadrons of CF-18s, which documents tabled in Parliament show have been in the air an average of 223 hours per year since they were purchased in the 1980s.

The Pentagon has acknowledged it considers the sustainment costs too high and is working to bring down the figures.

The F-35 program office is also still working on a comprehensive review of the operation and maintenance costs.

Loading Slideshow...
  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    FIIn this file photo taken on July 14, 2011 and released by U.S. Air Force, a USAF F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter (JSF) aircraft soars over Destin, Fla., before landing at its new home at Eglin Air Force Base. Japan selected the Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2011, to replace aging jets in its air force and bolster its defense capability amid regional uncertainty. (AP Photo/U.S. Air Force, Staff Sgt. Joely Santiago)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    A F-35 Lightning II sits on stage during the United Kingdom F-35 Lightning II delivery ceremony on July 19, 2012 at Lockheed Martin Corporation in Fort Worth, Texas. The ceremony marked the first international delivery of an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to a partner nation. (Photo by Tom Pennington/Getty Images)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    (Photo by Brendan Smialowski/Getty Images)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    Plane models stand outside the Lockheed Martin Corporation during the United Kingdom F-35 Lightning II Delivery Ceremony on July 19, 2012 in Fort Worth, Texas. The ceremony marked the first international delivery of an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to a partner nation. (Photo by Tom Pennington/Getty Images)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet sits in front the entrance of the Asian Aerospace 2004 show in Singapore 24 February 2004. The Asia Pacific offers one of the world's strongest prospects for defence-related spending, US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin said Tuesday as it expressed confidence in remaining a major supplier to the region's governments (AFP PHOTO/ROSLAN RAHMAN)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    (AFP PHOTO/CARL DE SOUZA)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    A Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lighning II fighter jet sits on the tarmac for static display at the Singapore Airshow in Singapore on February 12, 2012. Boeing's much-delayed 787 Dreamliner is set to star at the Singapore Airshow this week where companies touting private jets and defence hardware to the Asian market will also be out in force. (ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    (ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

  • F35 JSF Take Off

  • F-35A Flight with External Stores

    On Feb. 16, 2012, the first external weapons test mission was flown by an F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. The F-35A is designed to carry up to 18000 pounds on 10 weapon stations featuring four weapon stations inside two weapon bays, for maximum stealth capability, and an additional three weapon stations on each wing.

  • F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

    IN AIR, NAVAL AIR STATION PATUXENT RIVER, MD - FEBRUARY 11: (EDITORS NOTE: Image has been received by U.S. Military prior to transmission) In this image released by the U.S. Navy courtesy of Lockheed Martin, the U.S. Navy variant of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the F-35C, conducts a test flight February 11, 2011 over the Chesapeake Bay. Lt. Cmdr. Eric 'Magic' Buus flew the F-35C for two hours, checking instruments that will measure structural loads on the airframe during flight maneuvers. The F-35C is distinct from the F-35A and F-35B variants with larger wing surfaces and reinforced landing gear for greater control when operating in the demanding carrier take-off and landing environment. (Photo by U.S. Navy photo courtesy Lockheed Martin via Getty Images)

  • F-35 First Ship Landing

    Courtesy: NAVAIR/JSF Program/Lockheed Martin

  • F35 Hovering

  • F-35 Flight Test Highlights

    Highlights of F-35 flight testing at NAS Patuxent River, Md., NAS Fort Worth Joint Reserve Base, and Edwards AFB, Calif.

  • F-35 Performs First Night Flight

    The first night flight in the history of the Lockheed Martin F-35 program was completed on Jan. 19, 2012 in the skies above Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. Piloted by Lockheed Martin Test Pilot Mark Ward, AF-6, an F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) variant, launched at 5:05 pm PST and landed after sunset at 6:22 pm

  • F-35 Airstart Testing

    An F-35 test pilot talks about airstart testing at Edwards AFB, Calif., in early 2012.

  • F35 Air Show

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OTTAWA - The Conservative government is sounding decidedly less hawkish on its planned purchase of stealth fighters as it heads into a critical meeting with allies in Washington on the future of the c...
OTTAWA - The Conservative government is sounding decidedly less hawkish on its planned purchase of stealth fighters as it heads into a critical meeting with allies in Washington on the future of the c...
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The Canadian
Stop Harper
07:16 PM on 03/03/2012
Another little discussed fact about the ultimate cost of the F-35 program. Since the F-35 can't be refueled with our existing mid-air refueling planes, we will have to buy an entire new fleet of them or expensively retro fit them. It would sure be nice if the Conservatives weren't hiding these sorts of issues, but I am not the least bit surprised.

This an excerpt from an article about this:

Headline: Canadian military unable to refuel new jets in mid-air

"Canada’s new F-35 fighter jets, purchased at an estimated cost of between $16 billion and $21 billion, cannot be refueled while airborne using equipment the military has on hand, meaning Ottawa may have to spend several hundred million more dollars on additional equipment and modifications. "

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/31/canadian-military-unable-to-refuel-new-jets-in-mid-air/
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The Canadian
Stop Harper
07:11 PM on 03/03/2012
After I mustered out of the Canadian Armed Forces, I ended up working as a civilian in National Defense Headquarters (NDHQ) in Ottawa, where I worked with the acquisitions group for the LLAD (Low Level Air Defense) program. I learned tons about why Canada buys the equipment it does.

I won't go into all the reasons here: there are just too many considerations. But high up on the list of why we buy is pressure from the Americans. Many American weapons systems are so obscenely expensive to produce, that the only way they can afford to use them for their own Armed Forces is to produce many more planes, tanks or guns than they can possibly use themselves.

This way, they get the costs savings of bulk production, and more importantly, the profits from the sales of the surplus equipment to trusted allies helps defray the end costs, bringing them into the realm of affordability.

Essentially, Canada, Australia, Israel, etc, buy this equipment because the Americans want it, and they need our help to get it. Whether or not the equipment is the best possible fit for our needs or is good for our budget is not really the most important issue.

Notice, I'm not saying that we buy stuff we don't need - that would be rejected outright. But we often buy stuff we sort of need, and often at more than we wanted to pay to please the Americans.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
King Stevie Harper
08:07 PM on 03/03/2012
Thank you for the truth, in
of course it has been that way since they talked Dief to destroying the Arrow and probably before that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sdgreen
04:18 AM on 03/04/2012
On the other hand it does make sense to acquire materiel where all the R&D has been accomplished, the supply chain is in place, and there is congruence for the materiel in a number of armed forces. One of the problems is that our National Defence folks always want to re-invent the wheel and try to either add modifications or other changes. The other problem is that our politicians wish to have at least part of the materiel built in Canada. I like the F-35, I also like the F-22 which is a better ac, but not available to us. The next best ac is the F-18 Super Hornet. The Eurocentric jet fighters would not be on my list of preference.
04:52 PM on 03/01/2012
Seriously ... can somebody tell me at what point any of this scheme made sense? I mean, I'm as familiar as most with the story, except its genesis. Was there a point, years earlier, at which the plan made some sense before it all unraveled? Is there anyone out there who might shed a light? I'm just finding it near impossible to comprehend that this whole matter was so straightforwardly bungled so tragically from the outset.

Any help?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
06:07 PM on 03/01/2012
Bungled in what way?
The plane is turning out to be a dog.
We are not obligated to purchase any.
We look at different planes going forward.
12:42 AM on 03/02/2012
I understand we are not obligated to purchase. However, this represents a major shift in policy from a government who campaigned stridently that this was the absolute and only correct path and went so far as to hide information from Parliament because it was so important. Now, suddenly, boom. Not so much. Yes, factors such as other countries delaying purchases purportedly to examine co-ordinated buying strategies given variable numbers of planes projected to be manufactured year-by-year - nothing better than estimates of timetables that will never be guaranteed in any event - do play a part. And provide convenient cover for a shaggy retreat.

But I digress.

I'm just wondering how we went from "we need planes" to being so obviously and inarguably (now that even the Tories are admitting it, even if cloaked in the language of politics) and massively wrong.

A need was identified. Great start. So what happened? How - or rather, perhaps, where - did it get so bungled?

I'm not being partisan: anybody can see that this is a bad deal - the government has now as much as said so, to their (eventual and reluctant) credit. I'd just like to know the history of the whole thing, not simply an opinion of how clever it is not to actually go ahead with such a short-sighted idea.

I'm really just looking for a timeline. I think looking at the entire history would be fascinating. Anybody researching a book on it, I wonder? Ibbitson, you there?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sdgreen
04:25 AM on 03/04/2012
There is no doubt that we need new jet fighter airframes. The current ones we have will be BLR somewhere between 2018 to 2025. The real question is what new fleet should Canada obtain. The F-35, as envisioned and as originally costed was a good solution. However the last few years the economics of the world have changed dramatically. Cost increases have in no question revolved around the demise of the US financial support for the F-35. R&D is still in place but at a slower pace.

If Canada looks else where, then the F18 Super Hornet is the logical replacement even those such is a generation behind. I like the F-22, but that is not on the menu..
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Bumpers car
Fish till you die
03:45 PM on 03/01/2012
This brain child of the American defence industry is a still born and as such should be quietly buried with the Arrow and the TSR 2. There are other multi role aircraft out there that will still be current 20 years from now and we should be looking at them. This is not a good deal! Too expensive, too unproven, too unrelible, too long in development and too many unanswered questions.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
12:51 PM on 03/01/2012
Biggest, Dumbest waste of money EVER! This is even worse than the crippling costs of the Omnibus Crime Bill... And even MORE unnecessary!

This is G.W conservatism... Nothing fiscally conservative about this lot, at all!
The Liberals do a far better job of managing money, and that will become painfully apparent after 3 years of these neo-cons piling on the debt.... then trying to manage the debt by firing public workers... Republicans Control Canada
12:38 PM on 03/01/2012
What we need is fast attack fighter aircraft not this try to be everything to everybody aircraft. We know that our only sovern challenge will come from Russia as it stretches into the North so why invest in an aircraft that if we do pay not only the base 129 per for but at in the other 25 for the advanced fire control will still as independently evaluated get blown out of the sky. Not ention boucing around the nirth in a single engined fighter didn't we already do that once uuummm how"d that work out? Just bad decisions to support a bad product for a rediculous price that will tie us tighter and tighter to the American Military and much sooner to the Harper version of statehood.
01:52 PM on 03/01/2012
So, Russia will invade Canada with fighter jets? Isn't the US able to counter an Russian excursions into NORAD airspace more quickly with jets from bases in Alaska?
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Bumpers car
Fish till you die
03:55 PM on 03/01/2012
Depends on where they come from but I bet anything that what the Russians MIGHT do would involve airborn and ground assault supported by multi role and pure interceptor aircraft. Bombers are not practical and missles would provoke an all out shooting war. In that case, a multi role aircraft would be worth its weight in gold to us and might even delay them long enough to start bargaining before we were wiped out of the sky. The problem is that this one isn't the best candidate. As for the US responding, remember that they are as hard pressed (or more so) financially then we are and might not have the reserves of forces handy due to other committments and cut backs.
12:33 PM on 03/01/2012
Why not just buy SuperHornets? The pilots and mechanics are all trained and they are a great inexpensive aircraft.
01:53 PM on 03/01/2012
Why do we need a super interceptor? That is outdated cold war thinking. Today it is all about assymetric warfare. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise probably is a lobbyist for a defence contractor.
03:52 PM on 03/01/2012
SuperHornets, or Eurofighter Typhoons. We could buy either one practically off the shelf. Okay, so they are not stealthy like the F-35.. but so what? They are known quantities that are available now, for a known price.
11:54 AM on 03/01/2012
I'm still waiting to hear WHY we need the F-35. Harper's response (whether or not its through his proxies in the House) has always been "because we do." Stop insulting my intelligence, Mr. Prime Minister, and give me your reasoning. Don't worry about any complexities. I and many of my friends are well-read on defense issues and would look forward to surgically examining your arguments, whatever they may be.
01:56 PM on 03/01/2012
We don't need it at all. It is some sort of quid pro quo, the basis of which is not clear.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sdgreen
04:41 AM on 03/04/2012
Don't forget this project was initiated by the Liberals in the early 2000's. At the time the F-35 was a good choice given the price and performance specs. Things have changed, though an recent words from US MOD would indicate the F-35 program will slowed to a crawl. This presents problem in that our current airframes are wearing out. This is not all Harpers doing, but rather a continuance of a process that takes decades of R&D to production.
11:37 AM on 03/01/2012
For the Harper regime it boils down to a question of loyalty: do they represent the interests of Canada or are they mere placemen for foreign imperial power.
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Spanky McFarlane
ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM.
11:32 AM on 03/01/2012
OMG, these guys couldn't organize oral sex @ a prostitutes convention. they lie, mislead, divert & deny...& these are just the people we see every day, I wonder what they do behind closed doors?

(lol)
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SiameseTrainer
...we are Sia..mese if you don't please..
03:56 PM on 03/01/2012
They LOL...at us.
11:32 AM on 03/01/2012
How do you Canadians expect the U.S. military industrial complex to keep strong and wealthy if you don't buy our stuff? Why should we be the only country on the continent to waste huge amounts of our national treasure on unneeded high tech boondoggles?
12:13 AM on 03/06/2012
Good question, how about Americans using the money to do things like pay off their huge government debt. 56% of US Government spending goes into the military and the US is racking up over a trillion dollars of debt a year - incoming revenue 2.2 trillion - outgoing 3.8 trillion.
09:37 AM on 03/07/2012
Too true, too true.
thephuqqer
not the chicken plucker.
11:30 AM on 03/01/2012
Fantino (an ungrateful immigrant), was an idiot as a cop; now he's an idiot as a politician.............................The sooner the Tories are kicked out, the better.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Payman Saqib
Engineer - UOIT
11:18 AM on 03/01/2012
Let's renew the Eco Energy program that got cancelled instead of spending billions on this. The Eco Energy program only needs 200 million dollars federal and it will benefit homeowners and the construction market.
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
11:36 AM on 03/01/2012
I respectfully suggest that although you are 100% correct, this will not happen. I was heavily invested in delivering this program up until a year ago when I shut the business down and sent 15 people job-hunting. Harper killed the original Energuide program as soon as he was elected for no reason except that it was Stepane Dion's creation and then he crossed Canada handing out big cheques to all the Primiers, making his party look real generous (buying some future votes). Then a year later he re-introduced it after he changed the name to Eco-Energy, probably to satisfy his own ego. That must have cost a fortune in wasted marketing materials and re-developing the whole program. Then he KILLED it AGAIN just before the billion $ meetings in Ontario, citing this reason; "there is not enough money to keep the Eco-Energy program going'. Then a year later, as the politicking started for the last election, miraculously he announced new funding for the program!! Buying some votes obviously. This program is only a shadow of what it was, or what it could be for that matter.

See my next post please....
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
11:39 AM on 03/01/2012
Here is a quote from a speech Harper made to a US Conservative think tank in 1997:

"The establishment came down with a constitutional package which they put to a national referendum. The package included distinct society status for Quebec and some other changes, including some that would just horrify you, putting universal Medicare in our constitution, and feminist rights, and a whole bunch of other things."


Now you tell me, is this man nuts or what?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
11:12 AM on 03/01/2012
We've known this whole time that there were NO SIGNED AGREEMENTS.
Cost projections out the wazoo?
Don't matter.
THERE ARE NO SIGNED AGREEMENTS.
Next!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
11:11 AM on 03/01/2012
Yet we can't afford for all Canadians to have clean drinking water.