Long-Gun Registry: RCMP Says Loss Will Make Criminal Probes More Difficult

Posted: 04/12/2012 4:21 pm Updated: 04/13/2012 1:54 pm

OTTAWA - As it prepares to destroy millions of long-gun records, the RCMP says the Conservative government's decision to scrap the registry will make it tougher to trace firearms used to commit crimes.

The process that will lead to deletion of rifle and shotgun records in the registry is under way — with the exception of Quebec files at the centre of a court action, said Cpl. Laurence Trottier, an RCMP spokeswoman.

"It is a complex IT project involving the destruction of a large amount of data that is part of an integrated database, and will take some time to complete."

The national police force also says repeal of the long-run registry means tracing rifles and shotguns linked to criminal investigations "will be more challenging and will require more in-depth police investigation."

Recently passed legislation ended registration of most long guns and directed the RCMP to permanently destroy more than seven million files on firearm ownership. This includes deletion of computer files as well as any relevant paper records.

Quebec wants to use some of the data to create its own registry, but the federal government refuses to share the records, prompting the province to go to court.

Trottier said a Quebec court order forbidding destruction of registry data from the province — at least for now — "has had an impact, but the process continues in such a way that the records associated to non-Quebec residents will be destroyed in accordance with (the legislation), and the Quebec records will be treated as required by the courts."

She was unable to say when actual destruction of the records might begin. Federal lawyers involved in the court case say no data will disappear before August.

The cost of destroying the records "will be absorbed by existing budgets," the RCMP says.

The Tories argue the registration of long guns is wasteful and unnecessary. However, they support the continued licensing of gun owners and registration of restricted weapons — mainly handguns — and prohibited firearms — mainly smaller handguns and fully automatic weapons.

Trottier declined to elaborate on how the long-gun registry's demise will make it more difficult for the RCMP to track rifles and shotguns associated with crimes.

However, a newly released RCMP briefing note says eliminating the registry may delay criminal investigations, increase reliance on other countries for information, and hamper Canada's ability to comply with international treaties.

The Canadian Firearms Program, administered by the RCMP, works with police on investigations and plays a role in tracing the illegal movement and criminal use of firearms both in Canada and abroad, according to the note obtained under the Access to Information Act.

The program also supports international firearms investigations and provides tracing services for illicit guns through the Canadian National Firearms Tracing Centre, added the note, prepared for incoming Commissioner Bob Paulson.

"The loss of information on non-restricted firearms may result in a disproportionate reliance on foreign countries, such as the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, to trace firearms to their point of entry into Canada."

The firearms program also manages thousands of court-ordered gun revocations and prohibitions, and the end of the registry could compromise the ability of police to guarantee that all rifles and shotguns have been seized from an individual, the note says.

It also underscores the fact the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police wrote Public Safety Minister Vic Toews last June, saying that repeal of the registry would reduce the ability of police to effectively trace long guns.

"Canada's capacity to combat the illicit trafficking of these firearms and its ability to meet related international agreements may be significantly diminished," says the briefing note to Paulson.

Canada is signatory to two international conventions against the illicit manufacture and trafficking of firearms. It has also signed a politically binding international accord to enable states to identify and trace illicit small arms and light weapons.

These international agreements, among other things, demand that Canada co-operate on firearms tracing and maintain adequate records, according to an internal Public Safety Department memo.

Public Safety Department spokeswoman Jessica Slack refused to answer questions about how the end of the gun registry might affect the firearms program's ability to trace guns, saying only that Canada is committed to meeting its international treaty obligations.

Foreign Affairs Department spokeswoman Aliya Mawani referred questions to Public Safety.

Related on HuffPost:

Loading Slideshow...
  • What does this new bill on the gun registry do?

    We keep hearing about scrapping the long-gun registry, but really what we're talking about is scrapping the requirement for people to register their rifles and shotguns - that's what Bill C-19 aims to do by making amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. Once passed, people will not have to register their non-restricted or non-prohibited firearms. It also provides for the destruction of existing records in the Canadian Firearms Registry for those firearms. <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • What exactly is the registry?

    It's a centralized database overseen by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that links firearms with their licensed owners. It contains information about all three types of guns that must be registered - non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. (All firearms must be registered.) To register a firearm, you have to have a licence to possess it.

  • Does the bill make any changes to licensing requirements?

    No. Canadian residents need a licence in order to possess and register a firearm or ammunition and that won't change. There are a couple of different kinds of licences because of various changes to laws and regulations over the years.

  • What are long guns?

    There are three types of guns under Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Most common long guns - rifles and shotguns - are non-restricted but there are a few exceptions. A sawed-off shotgun, for example, is a prohibited firearm. A handgun is an example of a restricted firearm. Different regulations apply to different classifications of firearms.

  • How many guns are we talking about?

    As of September 2011, there were about 7.8 million registered guns. Of those, 7.1 million are non-restricted firearms.

  • Why does the government want to get rid of the long-gun registry?

    The government says it is wasteful and ineffective at reducing crime and targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals, who don't register their firearms.

  • Who wants to keep it?

    Police and victims' groups are big supporters of the registry. Police say the database helps them evaluate a potential safety threat when they pull a vehicle over or are called to a residence. They also say it helps support police investigations because the registry can help determine if a gun was stolen, illegally imported, acquired or manufactured. This year, the RCMP says police agencies accessed it on average more than 17,000 times a day.

  • When will the registry cease to exist?

    The government has passed the legislation and the registry no longer exists. Except for in Quebec, where an ongoing court challenge means the owners must still register their guns in the province.

  • Why does the government want to destroy the records?

    The government is doing this to ensure that no future non-Conservative government can recreate the registry. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has also made it clear that if any province wants to set up its own registry it would get no help from the federal government. The Conservatives are so fundamentally opposed to the existence of the records, because they say they focus on law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, that they don't want them available for anyone to use.

  • How much does the registry cost?

    The registry cost more than $1 billion to set up in 1995 and the cost was the source of much controversy. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Oct. 25 that the government's best estimate is that it costs about $22 million a year to operate. That's the entire registry, not just the long-gun portion, but he noted most of the guns in the registry are long guns. He said he didn't know how much money scrapping the requirement to register long guns would save the government. Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner says there are also "hidden costs" that are borne by provincial and municipal police agencies to enforce the registry.

FOLLOW CANADA POLITICS

OTTAWA - As it prepares to destroy millions of long-gun records, the RCMP says the Conservative government's decision to scrap the registry will make it tougher to trace firearms used to commit crimes...
OTTAWA - As it prepares to destroy millions of long-gun records, the RCMP says the Conservative government's decision to scrap the registry will make it tougher to trace firearms used to commit crimes...
Filed by Michael Bolen  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 210
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3  Next ›  Last »  (3 total)
09:32 AM on 04/15/2012
I can't believe people are still using the "police need this information" argument.

Anybody who is an officer, a soldier or an academic will tell you that having wrong/inaccurate/misleading information is 10x worse than having no information at all.

Trusting your life on a inaccurate system will get you killed.

~

- Officer Valerie Gignac from the Laval PD was shot and killed by a
guy on a firearm prohibition order. The CPIC query showed no gun at
that address. But some criminal friendly judge had decided to allow
the guy to have one rifle for hunting season... Because she trusted
the system and let her guard down, she paid with her life.

- Constable Daniel Tessierdied when his team made a dynamic entry for
an arrest warrant... The Gun Registry told them there wasn't suppose
to be any firearms at that location. Next thing you know, Basil
Parasiris shot and killed the officer.

- How about the Mayerthorpe shooting? There wasn't suppose to be any
guns at that location and James Roszko was prohibited from legally
possessing firearms. Next thing you know, officer Peter Schiemann,
Anthony Gordon, Lionide Johnston, and Brock Myrol lost their lives.
11:25 AM on 04/16/2012
The system needs fixing, not erasure.
11:41 AM on 04/16/2012
Before trying to fix it, we should first decide what is it that we want to achieve.

If we want to help people and prevent tragedies, we'll need to look elsewhere. Because a paperwork scheme is NOT an effective way of dealing with these problems.

-

On the other hand, if we're only concerned about smoke and mirrors... and want to provide lucrative contracts to major corporation...
11:05 PM on 04/17/2012
Correct...it is ridiculous to rely on a registry period. In a free society police should assume that anyone could be armed and act accordingly.

Its only common sense
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
04:25 AM on 04/15/2012
Our country is being run by a Dicktator (Harper) and that becomes more evident as he finally EXPOSES his party platform around the world.
09:24 AM on 04/15/2012
Funny... dictators are always trying to disarm the civilian population... Harper is doing the opposite.
goleafsgo
A Lie stands on one leg, Truth on two.
11:58 AM on 04/16/2012
Oh?  PM Harper is arming the civilian population?...Sounds  just like the Republicans in the States.
11:06 PM on 04/17/2012
You have no clue what you are talking about....Dictator...maybe we should send you to see Putin for a few months
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
12:53 AM on 04/18/2012
Oh, sorry, I was only stating Harpers ambitions. His actions CLEARLY invoke the impression of dictatorship, of couse with his gang of minions.

Maybe we should send you to to 'reality check' institution for a lesson on how to observe what is happening around you.
05:13 PM on 04/14/2012
"And now those same criminals can't be charged when found with a weapon... "

Example of the people who are charged, under the Firearms Act, despite following the law to the letter:

http://www.wellandtribune.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3454401

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/01/lorne-gunter-canadas-laws-on-the-safe-storage-of-firearms-need-clarifying/

And an extraordinary case of someone who basically got off scott-free, despite breaking every law in the book:

http://canadiancrime.tumblr.com/post/16964318410/vancouver-billionaire-david-ho-pleads-guilty-to-cocaine

Is the law fair, or functional, here?
02:52 PM on 04/14/2012
"And yet, we don't have community watch yahoos walking around, packing heat, knowing they can "stand their ground" while kids are bleeding out in the gutter..."

Last year, in Quebec, an UNARMED man jumped a G4S guard, as she was loading an ATM: she shot him, but wasn't charged. Yes, Virginia--civilians in Canada pack heat, and have a license to kill. Here is the form, for a permit:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/680-eng.pdf

There is also a very rare permit, called the ATC Type-3, which allows Canadians to carry CONCEALED handguns, for protection. Only a dozen, or so are given out in each province, every year, mostly to people like Crown Prosecutors and judges. To get one, you have to prove to the Solicitor General that your life is in danger...or make a campaign donation:

http://gunownersresource.com/articles/hey-buddy
02:41 PM on 04/14/2012
"Although laws differ state to state, typically in the USA you do not have to have any license to own a gun."

Actually, licensing is required, in a number of states (NJ, NY, Michigan). New York City has had about as strict a gun control regime as the Liberal Firearms Act, since 1911...plus a ban on BB guns. Until recently, handguns were absolutely illegal in DC and Chicago. And, as in Canada, Americans have discovered that costly gun controls don't work:

http://hudsonvalley.ynn.com/content/top_stories/579210/cuomo-shoots-down-cobis-to-save-money/

Prior to 1977, Canada actually had less strict gun laws than the U.S. Federal Gun Control Act: no background checks for gun purchases, and legal civilian ownership of machine guns. As Mark Steyn put it, many Canadians have been brainwashed into thinking that PET's social re-engineering of Canada is the way things always were.

And the reason the Mounties and Canadian police chiefs are so choked about losing the registry is that the main IT contractor, CGI Group, 'sponsors' the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police:

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/2010/08/Press_Release_Chiefs_Jones_20100824.html
This comment has been removed.
09:21 PM on 04/13/2012
Way to have our Law enforcement backs Harper!
04:09 PM on 04/14/2012
Actually, it is just the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (headed by Mr Friendly, Bill Blair--you remember him from the G8 summit, right?), since gun registry IT contractor CGI Group pays them to act as a lobby group.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
09:02 PM on 04/13/2012
Why on earth would we Canadians want to emulate our neighbours to the south? We must be insane. Vote the conservatives out, first chance we have.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
colpy
09:42 AM on 04/14/2012
(sigh)

Although laws differ state to state, typically in the USA you do not have to have any license to own a gun.

In Canada, you have to be trained, pass a test and a criminal check, have references and your spouse's approval to get the mandatory gun license.

In the USA, you are permitted to own any firearm, from tiny handguns to semi-auto paramilitary rifles and large capacity magazines with no restrictions.

In Canada, small pistols, large magazines and most paramilitary guns are completely banned. Those that are not banned are severely restricted.

In the USA, most citizens are allowed to carry loaded handguns concealed on the completion of a simple course and a criminal records check.

In Canada, Handguns are severely restricted, can only be fired at a range with permission, and must be transported both trigger-locked., and locked in a case. separate from ammunition.

Emulating our neighbours to the south???

I WISH!!!!!
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
10:36 AM on 04/14/2012
Exactly my point, if conservatives stay in power, it won't be long before all our regulations will slowly disappear one by one and we will become an extension of the USA. I for one don't look forward to emulate them.
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
04:01 AM on 04/15/2012
You can always move..................
04:12 PM on 04/14/2012
You mean, like New York, which has had licensing, full gun registration, authorizations to transport, 'safe storage,' and other Firearms Act-type laws and regulations since 1911? Actually, the absence of these laws, compared to American juristictions like NYC, Chicago, DC, etc., are the way things once were in Canada. Canadian history didn't begin forty years ago, with the Trudeau era.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
colpy
05:25 PM on 04/14/2012
Read again....I said "TYPICALLY". New York, Chicago, Washington DC, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. are the exceptions to the rule.
photo
hculliton
Match bearings and shoot!
04:53 PM on 04/13/2012
The firearms no longer required to be registered are deer rifles, sporting shotguns, and old black powder antiques. With respect to "crime reduction" and this being a such a "valuable tool" I'd like to know the last time a muzzle-loading firearm, for example, was used in a crime in Canada, or the States for that matter! BOOM! "This is a robbery!" Cartridge out, tear, pour in powder, spit in ball, pull out ramrod, seat charge, return ramrod, place on 1/2 cock, insert cap, cock, aim..."Anyone move, and I'll execute every one of you!" It kind of looses it's shock value when it takes 3 minutes between shots. As far as making criminal investigations more difficult, good! The easier we make the job of the police, the fewer civil rights we have. Our police are smart, and they did a great job before the long arms registry. I'm sure they'll survive.
04:14 PM on 04/14/2012
Actually, even the old handgun registry (1935) never solved, nor prevented a crime. And the RCMP even thought the concept of registering guns was so useless, that they destroyed the old FAC purchase records:

http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/FirearmsLegislation/AGangThatCouldn%27tShootStraight.html

"The RCMP had stopped accepting FAC records, and had actually destroyed those it already had. The FAC registry system didn't exist because the police thought it was useless and refused to waste their limited budgets maintaining it. They also moved to ensure that their political masters could not resurrect it."
11:28 AM on 04/16/2012
As if sporting shotguns and deer rifles have never been used in a robbery... Great job picking the most absurd example.
photo
BCLobbyist
www.mgcltd.ca
12:33 PM on 04/13/2012
The long gun registry was a huge waste of money and was an example of urban Canadians imposing their fears on rural Canadians who need long guns for hunting, to protect livestock and the like. Gangsters use hand guns which have had to be registered in Canada since the 1930s or prohibited automatic weapons they smuggle in from the United States. As for some police objecting let's keep in mind the skewed perspective of society they are confronted with everyday. As one RCMP officer told me, "when you start this job there are cops, citizens and criminals, but after a few years you get jaded and just see cops and criminals."
photo
hculliton
Match bearings and shoot!
06:12 PM on 04/13/2012
Very well said and I couldn't agree more. Handguns are still "restricted firearms" requiring a special licence, and machine guns like my long-coveted-but-alas-never-to-be-owned m-1927 Thompson "Chicago Typewriter" are prohibited. My police officer friends, who include me in their circle due to my military service and gunsmithing skills, say similar things. Law enforcement is a difficult and dangerous job. Unlike the military, where you come home from a rotation into lands crazy, a cop enters the crazy-zone when they step out the door, even before a cup of Timmy's. It's quite understandable if a career of that doesn't make you look twice at the neighbours. That's why they, like the military, shouldn't be making government policy.
08:37 PM on 04/13/2012
why do you "need" to hunt? we have plenty of farms across the country. Hunting is no longer a necessity. There are far too many of us on Earth for it to even be a necessity.
This comment has been removed.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
BobbyZRay
Gentlemen prefer chaos
11:38 PM on 04/13/2012
There are far too many of us taking up and encroaching on precious wildlife habitat.You either keep down the deer, bear and moose populations surrounding
the suburbs down by hunting, releasing predators (wolves) or just allow
them to multiply to the point of disease and/or becoming a problem for
motorists.
I say release and protect the wolves.
12:15 PM on 04/13/2012
You Canadians are sooo funny..
photo
hculliton
Match bearings and shoot!
06:15 PM on 04/13/2012
And yet, we don't have community watch yahoos walking around, packing heat, knowing they can "stand their ground" while kids are bleeding out in the gutter. Seriously, WTF?
11:11 PM on 04/17/2012
Whats your point dopey?
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
04:10 AM on 04/15/2012
Thanks for noticing..........we know that so many Americans don't even know that we exist.......let alone the fact that most of us do NOT live in igloos.
Fanned.
11:12 PM on 04/17/2012
Grow up and get over it
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
10:59 AM on 04/13/2012
Another reason to have a knife registry, not necessarily a gun registry.

The number of homicides committed with knives has risen in Canada and equals the number committed with guns for the first time since 1974, according to a new report from Statistics Canada.
In 2008, 34 per cent of 611 homicides reported by police were committed with knives, a seven per cent increase from 1999 and more than double the approximately 15 per cent level of 1974, the first year for which homicide data is available.

The proportion of homicides involving guns, meanwhile, dropped significantly — from approximately 48 per cent in 1974 to 34 per cent in 2008.
photo
Liz Wilson 2
“a small group can change the world
10:24 AM on 04/13/2012
regardless of anyone's personal opinion of the registry, it is evident that this current government under Harper does not listen to anyone other than those who are ideologically aligned. It would be in all of our best interests to know exactly who it is that makes Harper's decisions for him.
12:06 PM on 04/13/2012
Speaking of listening...

Too bad the government of the time didn't listen to then RCMP Commissioner Murray... Who tried to tell them that the data used to justify the registry was wrong and taken out of context...

http://www.whyfor.com/firearm/rcmp_murray.html

*-*-*-

Ho, wait... the government had hired Ms. Wendy Cukier and her organization (mentioned in that letter) to lobby the said government in favor on the gun registry...
11:14 PM on 04/17/2012
The Harper government is carrying out an election promise and is safe guarding the privacy rights of law abiding citizens....quite a refreshing change from the previous government(s) that pander to the ill informed.
photo
Liz Wilson 2
“a small group can change the world
11:42 PM on 04/17/2012
and Vic Toews is planning on stomping all over your privacy like never before with his new on-line surveillance plan. You won a very important victory.... but what the government knew about you with the gun registry is nothing compared to what they will know if they ever get to push their whole agenda.

Remember if your not with Toews your with the pedophiles
08:59 AM on 04/13/2012
Taking this tool away from the police may help keep the ratio of solved crimes lower, and the number of danger situations to the officers up. Voila! What a great justification for more prisons!

The sad truth is that the amount paid for the registry will now be wasted in additional work to be done by our police forces and the money argument just went over most peoples heads.
11:47 AM on 04/13/2012
Lets see...

18,000 queries a day, for 15 years... and not one single crime solved (never mind prevented)... I think it is safe to say the gun registry was pretty much useless!

-

That is, unless you were working for one of the computer firms doing the maintenance on it, in which case, it was the proverbial golden-goose...
04:38 PM on 04/14/2012
Wendy Cukier (Coalition for Gun Control) also owns Intercon Consulting--an IT firm that has had registry-related contracts, from the RCMP and other forces. Cukier also got an illegal, $380,000 lobbyist grant, from the Chretien government, thousands of which were kicked back to the Liberal Party, in ADSCAM-like donations:

http://cgnnightmare.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/c391-secu-hearings-wendy-cukier-answers-a-question/
This comment has been removed.
08:58 AM on 04/13/2012
If the public are disarmed then the police will not need to carry guns, right?.....right?
I don't trust police with guns and I don't trust all the people that this country has let in that are not ready for civilized society.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
russell merifield
09:16 AM on 04/13/2012
I thought opposition to the long gun registry had something to do with farmers who need to control little beasties. What does it have to do with disarming the public" It only said you had to get a licence like you do for your dog
12:06 PM on 04/13/2012
Wrong. It only said that once you got your license (which you'll still need to do) you then have to register each and every firearm you own and allow the police to enter your home, anytime, day or night, without a warrant, for any reason they might come up with. To my knowledge, licensing my dog or my car doesn't give them that right. We aren't a police state yet, but likely will become one if the NDP ever get in.
09:50 AM on 04/13/2012
Nice unsubstantiated racism you got there.
04:25 PM on 04/14/2012
Actually, immigration has a lot to do with gun crime. There is a very simple reason why: the annual intake is so high, that it precludes thorough screening for criminality. Here is but one example:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/01/18/shower-posse-jamaica-gang-toronto.html