F-35 Costs Back In Spotlight As MPs Return

CBC  |  Posted: 04/19/2012 6:14 am Updated: 04/23/2012 8:24 pm

F35 Canada Mackay
Peter MacKay and Prime Minister Stephen Harper have dismissed opposition accusations that the government has misled Parliament and Canadians on the cost of the F-35s, which are anticipated to replace Canada's aging fleet of CF-18s. (AFP/Getty Images)


MPs who returned to Ottawa for emergency meeting on the F-35 fighter jets spent two hours arguing and then decided to put off any discussion of the study until next week.


Conservative MPs also used their majority on the committee to leave themselves the option of closing next Tuesday's planning meeting to the public.


The Conservatives and Liberals both presented motions at the House public accounts committee to study an April 3 auditor general report, but MPs, who returned to Ottawa on a parliamentary break week for the meeting, argued over whose motion to consider. The official reason for Thursday's meeting was to consider whether to study the report, but the opposition and government agreed on the need for a study ahead of time.


Conservative MPs argued the committee should meet again on April 24 to set the list of experts to invite, saying if they didn't have notice they would be setting a witness list Thursday.


"Nobody said today was a planning meeting. We didn’t get the courtesy of that motion," Conservative MP Bev Shipley said.


Liberal motion voted down


The Liberal motion, which was voted down, included several bureaucrats involved with the F-35 purchase.


Generally witness lists are determined by a committee and its staff, with the chair setting the order. Liberal MP Gerry Byrne suggested the Conservatives wouldn't vote for his motion because they didn't want to lock in the witnesses and asked why that was.


"We have to get to the bottom of this. We have to get to the bottom of this quickly so that we can put this program, or at least this exercise, back on track quickly, to protect taxpayers’ money," he said before the meeting.


NDP MP Dave Christopherson, who chairs the committee, sounded frustrated as he suggested a number of compromises to try to get the MPs to move on with the planning.


Witness list dispute


MPs will use Tuesday's meeting to discuss which witnesses they want to hear from. They are planning to hear the first witness on April 26.


But the Conservative MPs on the committee voted against an NDP motion to ensure the next planning meeting be held in public.


The Liberal list of witnesses includes:


- Michael Ferguson, auditor general.


- Kevin Page, parliamentary budget officer.


- Dan Ross, assistant deputy minister (materiel), National Defence.


- Lt.-Gen. J.P.A. Deschamps, chief of the air staff, National Defence.


- Michael J. Slack, F-35 project manager, director of continental materiel co-operation, National Defence.


- Col. D.C. Burt, director, new generation fighter capability, National Defence.


- Tom Ring, assistant deputy minister, acquisitions branch, Public Works and Government Services Canada.


- Johanne Provencher, director general, defence and major projects directorate, Public Works and Government Services Canada.


- Richard Dicerni, deputy minister, Industry Canada.


- Craig Morris, deputy director, F-35 industrial participation, Industry Canada.


The NDP's list of witnesses is expected to add:


- Gen. Walt Natynczyk, chief of the defence staff.


- Robert Fonberg, deputy minister of defence.


- Alan Williams, former assistant deputy minister (materiel), National Defence, who has criticized the F-35 process.


- Jerome Berthelette, the assistant auditor general who was the lead on the F-35 study.


- An assistant deputy minister of National Defence referred to in documents as P. Lessard, who raised concerns in 2010 over the program's assessment as "low risk."


- François Guimont, deputy minister of public works.


- University of Ottawa military expert Philippe Lagassé.


- Josée Touchette, assistant deputy minister (public affairs), National Defence.


- And other officials who were part of the review process for the next-generation fighter jet, including Lt.-Gen. T.J. Lawson, deputy commander of NORAD.


Despite concerns that the Conservatives, who outnumber opposition MPs on the committee, could move the meeting behind closed doors, the whole meeting was held in public.


Earlier this month,the auditor general reported the government had internal estimates for the F-35s that included an additional $10 billion in operational costs, but that figure wasn't made public, despite repeated demands. He also found the Department of National Defence didn't provide complete information to decision-makers.


Defence Minister Peter MacKay insisted the $10-billion cost estimate discrepancy was simply a matter of accounting "differences" — despite the Treasury Board regulations and previous auditor general reports that call for operational cost estimates to be included in spending outlines.


MacKay and Prime Minister Stephen Harper also dismissed opposition accusations that the government has misled Parliament and Canadians on the cost of the F-35s, which are anticipated to replace Canada's aging fleet of CF-18s.


Opposition MPs made the operational costs a focus of their questions on the plan to buy 65 F-35 planes, leading the House of Commons to vote in February 2011 to force the government to hand over those costs.


Eventually, after then House Speaker Peter Milliken ruled the House had the power to compel the government to hand over those and other documents, MPs voted no confidence in the government, driving Canada into the 2011 federal election.


Follow Kady O'Malley's committee liveblog. Mobile friendly feed here.


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MPs who returned to Ottawa for emergency meeting on the F-35 fighter jets spent two hours arguing and then decided to put off any discussion of the study until next week. Cons...
MPs who returned to Ottawa for emergency meeting on the F-35 fighter jets spent two hours arguing and then decided to put off any discussion of the study until next week. Cons...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Skookum1
truth can't be bought, but lies sure can be sold..
12:55 AM on 04/20/2012
Did I miss it, or is the phrase "convicted of Contempt of Parliament" not in this article, only "MPs voted no confidence in the government, driving Canada into the 2011 federal election"? ??

Note - that wording clearly blames (Opposition) MPs for "driving" us into the (corrupted) 2011 federal election?

The CBC's wordgames sometimes are even more interesting than CP's or the G&M's or CTV's etc. "The straight goods" is not in any of their playbooks...."if we don't mention it ever again, we can pretend that it never happened". This from the network that downgraded the "robocalls scandal" to the "robocalls affair", then to the "robocalls controversy", then assisted in turning the issue into robocalls as such, and not the systemic practice in manifold ways of election-rigging and voter-fraud by the governing party (the one that holds its purse-strings and just tightened them, resulting in questionable-as-partisan cuts of certain shows...).

Show some spine CBC. And tell it like it is, not like you're told it is.
SamEasy
You really don`t want to know.
10:58 PM on 04/20/2012
Duuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh...........like the CBC has a choice? Harpers Republican Party would love to abolish the CBC totally.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
stanschurman
04:05 PM on 04/19/2012
This government doesn't shut down debate. It never begins it. You can't consider the reading of brief, terse statements both during Question Period and on programs such as Power & Politics, debate. Debate is an exchange of differing ideas. There is no exchange with the Harper gang, there is simply their very simplistic view of the world as concocted by the demons in their leader's square head.
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Maria Korovessis Sewell
To decimate is to reduce by one tenth.
02:39 PM on 04/19/2012
Total lack of respect for the citizens they are supposed to serve. Another example, among many.
01:46 PM on 04/19/2012
"When a government starts trying to cancel dissent or avoid dissent is frankly when it’s rapidly losing its moral authority to govern.”

Stephen Harper, Canadian Press, April 18, 2005
04:05 PM on 04/19/2012
why don't we all email stephen harper with his quote?

pm@pm.gc.ca
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05:51 PM on 04/19/2012
All 24 of us? Big deal...
01:16 PM on 04/19/2012
My premise is this is a democracy; we are part of NORAD and of NATO.

The first requirement is transparency. This includes establishing our requirements (once we announce the selected system everyone will know our capabilities so this need for secrecy is questionable to say the least; secrecy about the contents of any bid I can understand).
Given the commercial model used by Canada the second requirement is building our own defence systems. We can either develop and build our own or at least build them under license.
Within 10 years unmanned planes will likely out perform manned planes since they will have the ability to perform manoeuvres that a human will not be able to bear.
Most likely then as now missiles will be the preferred method of destroying invaders from the air etc.
Our primary needs involve patrolling our borders and rescuing people. This being the case we need surveillance satellites, patrol ships of all kinds, many deep sea harbours in the North, many military installations in the North, many helicopters, many transport planes, many missile systems and a few interceptor planes. What we do not need are 65 F35s whizzing over a Russian or a Chinese trawler at Mach1.5 (let alone a floating bucket full of illegal immigrants).

History has thought us that the number of systems available as well as the capacity to build them are often more valuable than their sophistication.

Mark Aubere Morrissey
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
BUTCHER99
12:14 PM on 04/19/2012
So all the bad things that were said would happen under Harper are happening faster than anyone thought possible and the good things, well, what good things.
12:00 PM on 04/19/2012
Will the kickbacks also be squelched?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tokenblackman
11:39 AM on 04/19/2012
Can't you feel the doors of democracy closing?
11:44 AM on 04/19/2012
Never thought I would see that in Canada.
11:10 AM on 04/19/2012
Most of the remaining funding for the 2011 portfolio is for procurement. Over 91 percent of the almost $705 billion needed to complete the programs in the 2011 portfolio consists of procurement funding; therefore, any future funding cuts to these programs will likely result in quantity reductions. The Joint Strike Fighter program alone is expected to account for 38 percent—or almost $246 billion—of the future procurement funding needed. This amount is enough to fund the remaining procurement costs of the next 15 largest programs. Figure 2

http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/589695.pdf
...............

As the report points out, although 60% of programs saw the costs of each unit go up last year, 52% of last year’s cost increases were incurred by a single program: the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the cost of which increased by $35 billion last year owing to what GAO called “manufacturing inefficiencies, parts shortages, and quality issues.” The JSF has been and will continue to be a money pit: The government has already sunk $70.6 billion into the JSF, which will need $256 billion more to reach completion, for a total cost of $326 billion, which is 52.8% higher than the initially estimated cost of $213 billion.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/236687.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
efell
Careful with that axe, Eugene
11:30 AM on 04/19/2012
Thanks for taking the time to do that. :-)
11:07 AM on 04/19/2012
Surely no one expected anything else from the Cons in Ottawa. Any government that includes anything other than fiscal items in a budget is only showing it's unwillingness to work with others. Stifling debate on issues by doing this is nothing short of dictatorship. I don't know about anyone else, but I am completely fed up with what is going on in Ottawa. We can't have an election fast enough. These Reform/Cons do not represent the majority of Canadians.

Unfortunately, unless the " first past the post " electoral system is changed to one of a proportional representaionon type, we are doomed to the same kind of nonsense we have now whereby ideological agendas control what gets passed into law. The electoral system is oe of the most pressing political problems we have in this country. It is also a severe problem in the U.S. Changing to a form of proportional representation whereby all views are on the table and consensus solutions to problems are reached for the benefit of all Canadians will be the only way Canada can become a strong integrated country.

I believe The Harperites have created divisions in this country which I had hoped were past us. As things are now, I am afraid my country will become " balkanized " and very vulnerable and F-65 jets are not going to do us any good.
11:39 AM on 04/19/2012
Yeah, the current electoral system suffers from a very glaring flaw, called vote splitting. With so many political parties, the votes get spread too thin. The conservatives won the last election, even though most of Canada didn't want them. But because everyone that wanted the conservatives voted for them, and everyone that didn't voted between NDP, Liberal, Bloc, Green, etc. the conservatives still won, because there wasn't a unified opposition.
09:43 PM on 04/19/2012
Under a proportinal representation system, there are a number of variations on that process the effect of vote splitting is minimized and all parties are represented in the parliament and ,as well, in the cabinet. What the process does is create a consensus form of governing where all sides of an issue are brought to the table and agreemnts made to solve problems. This kind of electoral system also can, to some extent, reduce the power of business, or any other interest group from, coercing the government. You stand a better chance of having policies developed which are beneficial to all society. Not a perfect way to elect representatives maybe, but to my mind , a much fairer system.
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albertarick
These are questions for wise men with skinny arms
10:46 AM on 04/19/2012
I am going to try the "accounting differences" argument with the Canada Revenue Agency when I do my taxes next year. I'm quite sure they will be as understanding as we are being with the Harper government.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
efell
Careful with that axe, Eugene
11:31 AM on 04/19/2012
Good luck with that. Let me know how it works out.
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albertarick
These are questions for wise men with skinny arms
11:51 AM on 04/19/2012
I have "faith" it will be all good.
11:45 AM on 04/19/2012
Thanks for my morning laugh.
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10:05 AM on 04/19/2012
Shiny toys to keep up with the Joneses accross the border. The cold war is over and the terror war is a bust. Besides, the terrorists and cartels don't have fighter jets.
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northof49th
09:58 AM on 04/19/2012
It goes with out saying that these conservatives, don't debate its there way or the skyway. Get use to it Canada this is the way our electoral system work. Change it before we change governments next time, 40% is still not a majority,
09:44 AM on 04/19/2012
Blah blah blah......fighter jets.....overspending......will they fly......blah blah blah......
Their biggest concern today will be what's for lunch.
09:40 AM on 04/19/2012
Re (from the 'teaser'): "Tories Likely To Squelch F-35 Debate"

Yes, the Tories are very, very good at squelching debate. On a host of issues, too, not just this one.
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Skookum1
truth can't be bought, but lies sure can be sold..
10:45 AM on 04/20/2012
It's our media being willing collaborators to the squelching that's the REAL problem....