Shooting Group Accuses Ontario Of 'Breaking Intent' Of Long-Gun Law

CBC  |  Posted: 05/02/2012 10:06 am Updated: 05/04/2012 11:24 am


The Canadian Shooting Sports Association is accusing Ontario's firearms officer of illegally asking business owners to record information about people who buy long guns.


The association said a letter from Ontario's chief firearms officer, superintendent Chris Wyatt, advises business owners who sell long guns to record buyers' names, addresses and phone numbers.


According to the CSSA, Wyatt writes that he believes collecting the information is in the best interest of public safety.


John Evers, president of the East Elgin Sportsmen’s Association and a regional director of the CSSA, called the practice illegal.


Evers, who is in Port Elgin, said collecting information about gun buyers flies in the face of Bill C-19, which struck down Canada's long gun registry in February and ordered the destruction of all data collected.


Evers said Wyatt should adhere to the federal government's decision.


"He is breaking the intent of the law, C-19," Evers said. "It's pretty bad when you have those who are supposed to uphold the law breaking the law, flagrantly saying, 'I'm going to disregard [it], because I don't believe it's right.'"


Evers said he'll lobby the government to stop any practice of collecting personal information about legal gun owners.


He said a better approach would be to track individuals who are prohibited from owning a gun.


Related on HuffPost:

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  • What does this new bill on the gun registry do?

    We keep hearing about scrapping the long-gun registry, but really what we're talking about is scrapping the requirement for people to register their rifles and shotguns - that's what Bill C-19 aims to do by making amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. Once passed, people will not have to register their non-restricted or non-prohibited firearms. It also provides for the destruction of existing records in the Canadian Firearms Registry for those firearms. <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • What exactly is the registry?

    It's a centralized database overseen by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that links firearms with their licensed owners. It contains information about all three types of guns that must be registered - non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. (All firearms must be registered.) To register a firearm, you have to have a licence to possess it.

  • Does the bill make any changes to licensing requirements?

    No. Canadian residents need a licence in order to possess and register a firearm or ammunition and that won't change. There are a couple of different kinds of licences because of various changes to laws and regulations over the years.

  • What are long guns?

    There are three types of guns under Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Most common long guns - rifles and shotguns - are non-restricted but there are a few exceptions. A sawed-off shotgun, for example, is a prohibited firearm. A handgun is an example of a restricted firearm. Different regulations apply to different classifications of firearms.

  • How many guns are we talking about?

    As of September 2011, there were about 7.8 million registered guns. Of those, 7.1 million are non-restricted firearms.

  • Why does the government want to get rid of the long-gun registry?

    The government says it is wasteful and ineffective at reducing crime and targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals, who don't register their firearms.

  • Who wants to keep it?

    Police and victims' groups are big supporters of the registry. Police say the database helps them evaluate a potential safety threat when they pull a vehicle over or are called to a residence. They also say it helps support police investigations because the registry can help determine if a gun was stolen, illegally imported, acquired or manufactured. This year, the RCMP says police agencies accessed it on average more than 17,000 times a day.

  • When will the registry cease to exist?

    The government has passed the legislation and the registry no longer exists. Except for in Quebec, where an ongoing court challenge means the owners must still register their guns in the province.

  • Why does the government want to destroy the records?

    The government is doing this to ensure that no future non-Conservative government can recreate the registry. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has also made it clear that if any province wants to set up its own registry it would get no help from the federal government. The Conservatives are so fundamentally opposed to the existence of the records, because they say they focus on law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, that they don't want them available for anyone to use.

  • How much does the registry cost?

    The registry cost more than $1 billion to set up in 1995 and the cost was the source of much controversy. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Oct. 25 that the government's best estimate is that it costs about $22 million a year to operate. That's the entire registry, not just the long-gun portion, but he noted most of the guns in the registry are long guns. He said he didn't know how much money scrapping the requirement to register long guns would save the government. Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner says there are also "hidden costs" that are borne by provincial and municipal police agencies to enforce the registry.

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The Canadian Shooting Sports Association is accusing Ontario's firearms officer of illegally asking business owners to record information about people who buy long guns. The ...
The Canadian Shooting Sports Association is accusing Ontario's firearms officer of illegally asking business owners to record information about people who buy long guns. The ...
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11:19 AM on 05/03/2012
Better would be to track individuals who are prohibited from owning a gun? Really? How do you do that without tracking who buys guns? Is the gun lobby really that stupid? (Rhetorical question).
Rantibus
Cogito, Ergo Rant
05:29 PM on 05/02/2012
First, the police do not "access" the gun registry 17,000 times a day. The registry comes up on the main screen whenever a police car runs a plate or checks a license. That's not "accessing" it. If a person has a Possession or PAL license, assume the presence of a firearm. If a person is in a vehicle, a handgun is more likely to be involved rather than trying to throw down on a police officer with a duck gun. And on house calls, the possession of a PAL license should inform the officers - it's largely immaterial what he's got behind a door unless it's a caliber too small to shoot through it.
How many convenience stores, banks or gas bars have been robbed by someone with a 3-shot, scoped hunting rifle? Semi-auto, large capacity mag rifles and carbines are classified and licensed as either restricted or prohibited weapons and don't come under the long-gun classification.
I have never been against the licensing of firearms, but the long-gun registry, in my opinion, has always been more about a tax-grab than public safety.
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Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
07:00 PM on 05/02/2012
yes this thing that cost over a billion and makes what? single digits in millions is a tax grab?? my math is not that good on this one.. but as you said yourself, they are informed automatically if said driver or house has a gun. this is well worth it already
Rantibus
Cogito, Ergo Rant
08:52 PM on 05/02/2012
It is when it's unnecessary. And the information on firearms licenses already tells officers all they need to know. The long gun registry is merely duplication of information that already exists.
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Filthy
02:20 PM on 05/03/2012
In Canada, two-thirds of gun murders involve handguns. About 600 murders a year in the country, about one third involve a gun and one third of those involve long guns - so about 60-70 I suspect or about 1 in ten.

I don't think the long-gun registry was a tax grab. It didn't cost anything to register.
Rantibus
Cogito, Ergo Rant
03:22 PM on 05/03/2012
Hand guns have had to be registered since 1932 and 78 to 80 percent of handguns involved in crime are smuggled into the country and are not legally bought or registered. And yes, it cost money to register a long-gun.
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04:33 PM on 05/02/2012
A gun is a weapon and the logical thing to do would be to register a weapon, I can understand why the Ontario's chief firearms officer wants to register those weapons...
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AlWaterloo
02:02 PM on 05/02/2012
I understand Alberta is doing this also.
12:30 PM on 05/02/2012
how many murders and crimes have been committed with 'long' guns? Yet Canadians would love to play policy on this issue!
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Bumpers car
Fish till you die
01:23 PM on 05/02/2012
Compared to illegal guns in Canada? less than 1% I'll wager
11:34 AM on 05/03/2012
23% in 2010. Look it up.
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Filthy
02:21 PM on 05/03/2012
Why guess? Why don't you just look it up. You're a terrible guesser.
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Opus Fideo
Atheist. Social Democrat. Canadian.
12:05 PM on 05/02/2012
C-19 is wrong, it is Harper and the minority of Canadians who support him
Imposing this law on the rest of us. The majority of Canadians supported the gun registry.
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tooldude
01:06 PM on 05/02/2012
And you have proof of you statistics where?
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Bumpers car
Fish till you die
01:22 PM on 05/02/2012
He doesn't because all the surveys done have indicated a slim majority approved of dismantling it. around the 54 to 56% range.
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tooldude
11:43 PM on 05/03/2012
I suppose that the only poll that really matters was the one that gave Harper a majority government after he made a promise to scrap the registry. Many will claim that it was not a true majority, but it is still a legal, Canadian government.
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ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
11:55 AM on 05/02/2012
Each province should be free to create their own gun registries if they feel it is in the best interests of their province. All Bill C-19 did was scrap the federal registry, it didn't outlaw the creation of any registry in Canada... unless I'm mistaken
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colpy
07:46 PM on 05/02/2012
Absolutely.

They can create any registration they want.

It will NOT use Federally gathered information, as that is part of the Federal framework that is being destroyed by Bill c-19, passed in Parliament.

The provincial law will not have the thrust nor the penalties of the Federal law, as it will not be part of the Federal Criminal Code, so violations will NOT be criminal offenses. Considering how ignored the vicious Federal registry was, one can only imagine how ignored a toothless Provincial registry will be.
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Filthy
02:33 PM on 05/03/2012
A provincial registry wouldn't need to be that 'toothy' since it's just requiring retailers to record customer information.

The unique part about the registry was that it required you to register guns you already owned. A lot of people own firearms that they've inherited and yet don't have an FAC. For that reason a lot of folks were wary about what the registry would mean for them. That's not a factor when asking retailers to register consumer info.
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ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
04:14 PM on 05/03/2012
true enough. I still think it could be easily enforced through provincial fines for gun-sellers who don't take the information, but it's not really an issue that I'm too concerned about... Thankfully, here in Canada we don't have gun-toting vigilantes in rural areas... yet
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arkymorgan
Nobody knows the trouble I've been...
11:42 AM on 05/02/2012
But I thought that 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about'? Isn't that what you lot say about those rights and freedoms that you don't personally value yourselves?

I guess that philosophy only applies to people you think you wouldn't like...
11:39 AM on 05/02/2012
The long-gun registry was a total farce since it's conception.
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ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
12:00 PM on 05/02/2012
Tell that to the hundreds of police officers who said it was in fact very helpful and lead to arrests in some cases
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colpy
12:07 PM on 05/02/2012
So......you want to live in a country where to law enforcement branch regulates society at their whim, despite any lack of actual legislation?

How....progressive of you.
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Bumpers car
Fish till you die
01:31 PM on 05/02/2012
So then, and I am not criticising your position, I assume you support the Internet snoop bill and criminal prosecution for so called soft drugs? The police support that legislation also and have said it is very helpfull. We can't have it both ways, either we agree to the police dictating policy or we agree to disagree and let the majority decide. The majority (slim as it is) think the registry was an expensive political look good boondoggle and agreed to its demise. Perhaps in 4 years we may change government and majority numbers but until then the law has been repealed and collecting illegal information is just that, illegal. Public servents don't make and enforce their own laws.
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11:25 AM on 05/02/2012
I've never understood what the fuss is all about. Nobody has a problem (as far as I know) that we register our cars and police can use that information to get information about the driver and solve crimes. It doesn't seem entirely unreasonable that we should keep track of deadly weapons in a similar manner.

Particularly from a government that claims to be "tough on crime".
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colpy
11:43 AM on 05/02/2012
THE LAW!!!!!!

Bureaucrats to do have the power to invade our privacy and enforce laws that do not exist.....or they should not.
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piceaglauca
The picture says it all....
11:11 AM on 05/02/2012
Wyatt has just put his butt in a sling.
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AlWaterloo
10:48 AM on 05/02/2012
Thank goodness we have people like Chris Wyatt.
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colpy
11:42 AM on 05/02/2012
That's right.

What we need is people that try to enforce non-existent laws, over the head of our elected legislative bodies, at their own personal whim........because the basic principles of English Common Law and the will of the people is just so.....bothersome.

(sarcasm alert)
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Brent Millar
When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro
03:35 PM on 05/02/2012
Common law before the gun registry was exactly this: All guns sold, the seller had the onus of recording the buyers name, address and phone number in a ledger kept on the premisies.
So, what's changed? Nothing, being that. as you put it, the basic principles of English Common Law.

There is no law being broken. If so, cite the law that is being broken. I'll wait. This could take some time. No worry, I've a full compliment of food and bevies as well as time to kill.

If you'll register your car what's the problem with registering a firearm, no matter it's intent? Both can kill, but only one was designed for that specific purpose. But that's the one that shouldn't be registered?