Gun Registry: Ontario Vows To Keep Collecting Data On Who Buys Guns

CP  |  By Posted: Updated: 05/11/2012 3:55 pm

OTTAWA - Ontario won't create a provincial gun registry, but it does want stores to keep records of who buys guns, despite federal objections, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Friday.

"We're not going to adopt a long-gun registry here in Ontario," McGuinty said after touring a local website development company.

"But we will maintain a practice that's been in place since 1978."

Federal Public Safety Minister Vic Toews sent a letter Tuesday to all provincial chief firearms officers, telling them the collection of point-of-sale data is no longer authorized under the Firearms Act.

He asked the RCMP to notify him "immediately" if they learn that chief firearms officers are engaged in "unauthorized data collection."

But Ontario has a different interpretation of the Firearms Act, and it will be up to the federal government to introduce legislation to counter the practice, said McGuinty.

"Let's not have an exchange between the RCMP expert in this area and the provincial experts in this area," he said.

"Let's turn it back to the feds and say if your intention was to not only eliminate the long-gun registry but a pre-existing practice, I think you need to make that clear.

"Right now there's obviously some uncertainty."

Ontario Community Safety Minister Madeleine Meilleur has written Toews to clarify the province's position on the issue.

Meilleur says recent media attention created confusion, so she wanted Ottawa to know Ontario does not want a provincial gun registry and will "comply fully" with the requirements of Bill C-19, which killed the federal long-gun registry.

But in an interview, Meilleur said Ontario retailers will continue to take down names and address of anyone purchasing a gun as part of the permit process.

She said the chief firearms officer of the Ontario Provincial Police interprets section 58 of the Firearms Act as giving him the power to impose that requirement.

Quebec has mounted a legal challenge preventing the destruction of federal long-gun registry records.

Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner, Toews' parliamentary secretary, suggested in the House of Commons on Friday that Ontario was contravening the intentions of the federal government by continuing to collect gun owner data.

"Bill C-19 should be complied with, the spirit and the letter of the law, and the minister directed CFOs throughout the provinces and the RCMP to comply with that," she said.

Related on HuffPost:

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  • What does this new bill on the gun registry do?

    We keep hearing about scrapping the long-gun registry, but really what we're talking about is scrapping the requirement for people to register their rifles and shotguns - that's what Bill C-19 aims to do by making amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. Once passed, people will not have to register their non-restricted or non-prohibited firearms. It also provides for the destruction of existing records in the Canadian Firearms Registry for those firearms. <em>With files from CBC</em>

  • What exactly is the registry?

    It's a centralized database overseen by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that links firearms with their licensed owners. It contains information about all three types of guns that must be registered - non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. (All firearms must be registered.) To register a firearm, you have to have a licence to possess it.

  • Does the bill make any changes to licensing requirements?

    No. Canadian residents need a licence in order to possess and register a firearm or ammunition and that won't change. There are a couple of different kinds of licences because of various changes to laws and regulations over the years.

  • What are long guns?

    There are three types of guns under Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Most common long guns - rifles and shotguns - are non-restricted but there are a few exceptions. A sawed-off shotgun, for example, is a prohibited firearm. A handgun is an example of a restricted firearm. Different regulations apply to different classifications of firearms.

  • How many guns are we talking about?

    As of September 2011, there were about 7.8 million registered guns. Of those, 7.1 million are non-restricted firearms.

  • Why does the government want to get rid of the long-gun registry?

    The government says it is wasteful and ineffective at reducing crime and targets law-abiding gun owners instead of criminals, who don't register their firearms.

  • Who wants to keep it?

    Police and victims' groups are big supporters of the registry. Police say the database helps them evaluate a potential safety threat when they pull a vehicle over or are called to a residence. They also say it helps support police investigations because the registry can help determine if a gun was stolen, illegally imported, acquired or manufactured. This year, the RCMP says police agencies accessed it on average more than 17,000 times a day.

  • When will the registry cease to exist?

    The government has passed the legislation and the registry no longer exists. Except for in Quebec, where an ongoing court challenge means the owners must still register their guns in the province.

  • Why does the government want to destroy the records?

    The government is doing this to ensure that no future non-Conservative government can recreate the registry. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has also made it clear that if any province wants to set up its own registry it would get no help from the federal government. The Conservatives are so fundamentally opposed to the existence of the records, because they say they focus on law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, that they don't want them available for anyone to use.

  • How much does the registry cost?

    The registry cost more than $1 billion to set up in 1995 and the cost was the source of much controversy. Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Oct. 25 that the government's best estimate is that it costs about $22 million a year to operate. That's the entire registry, not just the long-gun portion, but he noted most of the guns in the registry are long guns. He said he didn't know how much money scrapping the requirement to register long guns would save the government. Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner says there are also "hidden costs" that are borne by provincial and municipal police agencies to enforce the registry.

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OTTAWA - Ontario won't create a provincial gun registry, but it does want stores to keep records of who buys guns, despite federal objections, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Friday."We're not going to a...
OTTAWA - Ontario won't create a provincial gun registry, but it does want stores to keep records of who buys guns, despite federal objections, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Friday."We're not going to a...
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Gnomish
ego doctus ignarus
08:14 PM on 05/13/2012
Let's do away with the baby registry as well it just promotes barnyard lecherous behavior.
01:43 PM on 05/12/2012
Radio Shak collects my personal information when I buy batteries
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
02:45 PM on 05/12/2012
SuesW

Do they force you to do it?....
yer
Stop the Alberta Taliban
12:54 AM on 05/12/2012
So Ontario law just goes back to the laws in Ontario that are on the books. Haha Vic.. pwned
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
02:46 PM on 05/12/2012
yer

No, it does not go back to Ontario laws....It's a Federal law that has now been superceded by a new Federal law...C19....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vere15
Vero nihil verious (nothing truer than truth)
06:17 PM on 05/11/2012
Does Mr Toews himself want to buy a gun in Ontario without anyone knowing about it?
06:58 PM on 05/11/2012
If he has passed a background check and has not otherwise broken a law, then why shouldn't he be allowed?
03:49 PM on 05/11/2012
I'm not clear as to why Toews is bothered by this. The Feds dropped their gun registry and now some provinces want to continue it on their own. So?

Don't see that as the Feds concern.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
02:48 PM on 05/12/2012
Then it's clear that know nothing about the subject....C19 also applies to the provincial Firearms Officers under section 29.1...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
x46
02:49 PM on 05/11/2012
But, Vic, wasn't that you standing up in the HoC on the day the LGR was repealled saying that the provinces could start their own gun registries if they want to?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
02:57 PM on 05/12/2012
x46

Then, you are another anti gun fanatic that does not have a clue what they are talking about.....

Ontario, nor any other province, has set up a long gun registry, and Premier McGuinty has said that he will NOT be setting up a provincial registry...So, the Ontario Firearms Officer, Chris Wyatt, is breaking a new Federal law (C19)...Not only that, but he is displaying insubordination by ignoring the order of a Federal Minister, and the RCMP Commissioner...

If the police can wilfuly break the laws, then, what's left for a country?...
08:53 AM on 05/13/2012
The "order" of a Federal Minister is outside federal jurisdiction which, in this instance, is transferred to the province's CFO by an act of parliament The CFO is not "breaking a Federal law, nor is he even subordinate to the RCMP Commissioner as you seem to think..

The other relevant area is the administration of commercial registration. A provincial responsibility under the constitutional acts. The province regulates the requirements to operate a business of this type.

The BillC-19 is mute on those points because it was written in haste and was not properly reviewed in committee. Just another clear indication of the level of incompetence of Toews.

I find it sad that this gov't seems to lack even a basic understanding of due diligence. Turning to bullying to cover their own mistakes demonstrates a lack of respect for the RCMP Commissioner who has been cowed into writing that letter.
02:32 PM on 05/11/2012
If there is no legislation in place authorizing Ontario's capture of this information, how could a gun shop be penalized for refusing to do so? One quick way to test the legality of what Ontario's CFO is trying to do, is for a couple of gun shops to stop recording the data. I might even be to a gun shops advantage to put this to the test. Given a choice of buying your hunting rifle or shotgun at a dealer that does or does not take down your personal information, where do you think the average gun purchaser is going to shop ?

Are out of province firearms transactions allowed in Canada?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
x46
02:50 PM on 05/11/2012
The legislation existed before the LGR. It's still in force.
02:55 PM on 05/11/2012
that may be, but Toews seems to be saying that now due to the abolishing of the LGR, that takes precedence over any previously existing legislation. I suspect that we are going to see something tabled in the HOC if Ontario does not back down.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
03:01 PM on 05/12/2012
x46

Bull.....Recording a gun buyers name, address, firearms license etc, was NEVER law....It was merely a requirement by the Provincial Firearms Officers....It was their "interpretation"...Never law...

Read the Firearms Act and then read C19 before you speak...
07:00 PM on 05/11/2012
The CFO has said he will pull their license if they don't. Extortion at its finest.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
William Muller
01:24 PM on 05/11/2012
What is wrong with the Federal Tories? They love to offload most responsibilities to the provinces so what's the big deal with this one? We have to register our cars, dogs etc. but a lethal weapon you can just pick up without leaving some personal info?

It is just mindbogling with how much gusto and paranoid speed Harper is dragging this country into the extreme-right corner since the last election.

If Canadians have any loyalty towards our long fought-for freedoms and values we better start organizing en masse to let these Reformers know we won't tolerate the fast erosion of those freedoms and values any longer.
Our future is at stake!
02:37 PM on 05/11/2012
ok, let me see if I can follow the logic on this one....

by not having the big evil government looking over our shoulders and recording every detail of our lives, we are at risk of seeing an erosion of our freedoms?

ok, think I got it
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
William Muller
02:58 PM on 05/11/2012
ncc, I guess you forgot about bill C-35 so they can snoop into our computers and phone records without a warrent. Yes, erosion of freedom.

Gutting environmental regulations so they can ram pipelines and dirty mines through. Yes, erosion of freedom.

Firing 700 scientists and spying on the remaining few when they attend world conferences. Yes, erosion of freedom.

Burying 18 pieces of non-budget legislation in a budget bill (never done before in Canadian history) and then limiting debate. Yes, erosion of freedom.

Want me to go on?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
spinnerator
02:49 PM on 05/11/2012
Oxymoronic commentary. Emphasis on the moronic part.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Doogs62
To see by faith is to shut the eye of reason
04:10 PM on 05/11/2012
You do know what an oxymoron is right? Or do you compare favourably with the last part.
11:03 AM on 05/11/2012
In a update to this story, Vic and RCMP commish Paulson 1 CFO's 0

Looking forward to see what the big bad legislation interpreting CFO's will do next. Cause I hope they do something and Vic and Paulson make their offices redundant and centralize the CFO functions. Back to the beat for Wyatt...lol
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Turdinthepunchbowl
Just say no, to the opiate of the masses.
10:57 AM on 05/11/2012
Correction!!! I posted a comment about the mustachioed one himself Vic Toews. It should have stated would you "trust Vic with your babysitting daughter", not the contrary. Of course, I believe all your daughters are righteous dude-ettes.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
03:10 PM on 05/12/2012
Turdinthepunchbowl

And your comment is totally meaningless....
georgee2
My Canada Includes Everyone
10:14 AM on 05/11/2012
Why does this government hate non gun owners. We are the majority after all. About 70%.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
spinnerator
02:50 PM on 05/11/2012
Another OxyMORON!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Doogs62
To see by faith is to shut the eye of reason
04:13 PM on 05/11/2012
Another TROLLing motor!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
03:12 PM on 05/12/2012
georgee2

The government "hates" non gun owners?....Is that all your have?...Simple minded rhetoric....
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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emphatico
....is politically radioactive.
09:56 AM on 05/11/2012
These Conservatives are truly a reckIess bunch. How can you get rid of something that the law enforcement uses to get job done?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ascoli
03:19 PM on 05/11/2012
They kiss NRA asses
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roy in Canada
03:12 PM on 05/12/2012
Ascoli

More mindless twaddle...And a lie...
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Turdinthepunchbowl
Just say no, to the opiate of the masses.
09:20 AM on 05/11/2012
When you're dealing with Vic Toews you're dealing with a man who has many issues. He wants to put in scanners at airports to view everyone's junk but thinks it's a horrific breach of privacy to record who buys guns. Ask yourself this, would you trust your teenage daughter to babysit for this guy?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thalin Lea
09:16 AM on 05/11/2012
I still don't get how this Cowboy Nazi mustache got to be Public Safety Minister. What kind of safety does he represents by abolishing guns registry ? Such a contradiction. In this case he is representing the USA's gun Industry Magnates, not the Canadians Safety. Let's be real and clear here!
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Mike Keohane
09:16 AM on 05/11/2012
Yawn. Governments in Ontario and Quebec are basically bankrupt and in the absence of any remaining financial capacity to take real initiatives to justify their existance, you can expect them to grab hold of anything that seems to appeal to the urban voting base that elected them.
09:22 AM on 05/11/2012
As they should.
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Brent Millar
When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro
11:52 AM on 05/11/2012
So, you're desperately trying to link both Provinces fiscal matter to handwritten ledgers containing ownership information on guns?
Really?
There's massive leaps in logic, and then there's this...

Sophism IS NOT your strong point. Try a different line of work...