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Aviva Rubin

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Who Will Stand Up and End Catholic School Funding?

Posted: 02/05/2013 5:39 pm

When I first read the Toronto Star article "Catholic schools: Ontario parents fighting to have children exempt from religious studies," I wondered why Oliver Erazo sends his kids to Catholic school? And why is he spending so much energy fighting the Catholic board? His kids belong in the public system. But of course this is the public system, and this school is close to their home and has good ratings. Why should they go elsewhere?

Turns out according to Erazo's lawyer, Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, the law clearly states parents can get a full exemption for their children from religious courses and programs. The Catholic Board has granted them most of what they've requested, but won't acknowledge the legal requirement to do so under the Education Act.

I am a big believer in eliminating the publicly-funded Catholic school system altogether. I have nothing against Catholic schools, or only as much as I have against Jewish schools, Muslim schools or any other parochial school. I'd prefer to see religion relegated to the realm of extracurricular, but if you want it all day long, it's your choice. Just pay for it yourself.

No government is going to approve funding for additional religious schools, but that doesn't mean those communities are not fighting for it on the principal of equity. And so they should. The system is unfair. But the route to equality is not to fund all, it's to fund none. It's so obvious.

I'm tired of hearing that access to a Catholic Education is guaranteed in the British North America Act. Lots of sexist, homophobic, racist, inequitable and exclusionary practices are grounded in ancient laws from religious texts to constitutions. That's no reason to keep them. In fact, we've slowly gotten rid of the most offensive of them because as a society, we believe they no longer represent our collective values. There may have been a good progressive reason in Protestant 1867 to protect the rights of minority Catholics, but today our pluralist society will be best served by secular education.

But sadly our Ontario politicians are too chicken to even wade into this debate, never mind do away with the injustice, as other provinces have been bold enough to do. I had a secret fantasy that as a parting gesture Dalton Mcguinty would end public funding for Catholic Education. But he didn't. Will Kathleen Wynne? I doubt it.

So this brings me back to Oliver Erazo, and his sons Amilcar and Jonathan. I'm revising my initial reaction of What can they possibly hope to achieve? I think they're on to something, as were the students and teachers who fought the Catholic Board's ban on Gay Straight Alliance clubs and won, despite the Church's homophobic doctrine.

The way to get to where we need to be -- one healthy public school system -- may just be through incremental challenges: putting time and energy into chipping away at the differences, to the point where the systems are so completely alike, there is no point in having both.

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  • #173: The University Of Western Ontario

    <b>Overall</b>: 52.6% <b>Academic reputation</b>: 49.3% <b>Employer reputation</b>: 66.1% <b>Faculty/student ratio</b>: 76.9% <b>Citations per faculty</b>: 28.2% <b>International faculty ratio</b>: 56.2% <b>International student ratio</b>: 38%

  • #152: McMaster University

    <b>Overall</b>: 56.1% <b>Academic reputation</b>: 57.2% <b>Employer reputation</b>: 35.4% <b>Faculty/student ratio</b>: 84.7% <b>Citations per faculty</b>: 30.5% <b>International faculty ratio</b>: 67.2% <b>International student ratio</b>: 54.2%

  • #114: Université de Montréal

    <b>Overall</b>: 63.5% <b>Academic reputation</b>: 69.3% <b>Employer reputation</b>: 37.9% <b>Faculty/student ratio</b>: 76.2% <b>Citations per faculty</b>: 38.5% <b>International faculty ratio</b>: 83.4% <b>International student ratio</b>: 84.1%

  • #108: University Of Alberta

    <b>Overall</b>: 64.2% <b>Academic reputation</b>: 71.6% <b>Employer reputation</b>: 46.6% <b>Faculty/student ratio</b>: 52.8% <b>Citations per faculty</b>: 58.1% <b>International faculty ratio</b>: 90.8% <b>International student ratio</b>: 71%

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  • #19: University Of Toronto

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  • #18: McGill University

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When I first read the Toronto Star article "Catholic schools: Ontario parents fighting to have children exempt from religious studies," I wondered why Oliver Erazo sends his kids to Catholic school? A...
When I first read the Toronto Star article "Catholic schools: Ontario parents fighting to have children exempt from religious studies," I wondered why Oliver Erazo sends his kids to Catholic school? A...
 
 
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04:26 PM on 02/09/2013
In Ontario property tax pays school taxes, and Catholic's cant designate their taxes to go to Catholic board(at least it was like than 7 yrs ago when I owned property in Ontario.

I would prefer a voucher system, where you could use the voucher at any provincially approved school. Competition would increase the education levels dramatically, and give parents more choice
08:41 PM on 02/09/2013
Catholics are asked where they would like to direct their property taxes, but this is for the purpose of determining which school board trustee they will be voting for, not where the taxes are actually directed.

What is your evidence that competition increases the education levels dramatically? The more widely dispersed the pupils are, the lower the economies of scale, in transportation, material purchasing, teachers, buildings, etc., resulting in increasing costs per pupil. Danny Handelman
12:17 PM on 02/10/2013
The priority should be the student and their education, sadly that is not. At a cost of over $8000 a student in public school, it is not cost effective either.

If you have only one burger joint, the quality would be crap and the price would be high.

The school system is the one burger joint, high cost and crap product.
10:58 AM on 02/07/2013
Excellent article. I also attempted to send my child to Catholic School in Burlington, Ontario. She is baptized in Lutheran Church. I have nothing against Catholics or Catholic School. I am against discrimination and waisting the money. Below is the answer from School board. And yes I did talk to the Catholic Parish office. Well - they told that they can do absolutely nothing, because it is Halton District School boards policy not to accept non-catholic children. Who should I believe ?

School boards official answer is below ....

... In accordance with the above principle, the Halton Catholic District School Board’s policy states that “If the child has no Roman/Eastern rite Catholic baptismal certificate, the child may be admitted if one parent can provide a Roman/Eastern Rite Catholic baptismal certificate”. If there is a problem with this requirement, the parent must arrange to meet with the parish priest and commit to having the child baptized or, if baptized in another Christian faith, to have their child received into the Catholic Church. There is also a commitment on the part of the parents to raise the child Catholic in their parish community.

We appreciate your interest in having your child attend our Catholic school system. However, the requirements of the Board’s Policy on Admission are quite prescriptive, and in the absence of a letter of support from the Catholic Parish Priest in your jurisdiction, we would not able to support her admission.
01:43 PM on 02/07/2013
The Roman Catholic Church still recognizes your baptism however if you are not planning to teach your children about the catholic faith then it's a waste to send your children to a catholic school.The public board is protestant send your children there.When it comes to faith you need to Repent and Believe in the gospel; don't protest and believe in the gospel; this is where protestants come form.
05:35 PM on 02/07/2013
"The public board is protestant send your children there" -- So you believe then that Public Board is for Protestant Children and Catholic only for Catholics. How about those poor non-believers, Buddists or Muslims. Do you really think that those poor children do not deserve publicly funded education ? I believe we all are equal and we all schould have same rights to attend any publicly funded school.

It is known fact that we all pay for Catholic Schools. All Ontarians bear the same tax burden, based on their income, not their faith, but only those of the Catholic faith are guaranteed a publicly funded school choice. School support designations on municipal property assessments have no effect on total school board funding, which is determined solely by enrolment and other documented needs. The Roman Catholic school system gets about one-third of Ontario’s $24-billion education budget, but only 23 per cent of electors direct their education taxes to separate schools. You still believe that it is not discriminatory ?
10:51 PM on 02/06/2013
It is an express provision in the Constitution Act, 1982. It is THE CONSTITUTION -- not Magna Carta proclaimed by a Plantagent King, nor some other received law from the medieval era, nor is it a common law decision that is open to revisiting or changing it by simple amendment of the legislature. It is an EXPRESS PROVISION in the Constitution of Canada - the Supreme Law of the Land.

You don't get to ignore an express provision in the Constitution simply because you do not happen to like it. No, not even if you **really-really-really** don't like it, nor even if you are reallyreallyreally are tired of being reminded of this simple fundamental fact. While I am not a great fan of this provision of the Constitution, I am even LESS of a fan of inviting endless Constitutional wrangling by opening that Pandora's box. You don't get to restrict the nature of the debate with Quebec just because you want to amend and talk about only your pet peeve. Grow up.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mr Lyons
views of an meat-eating socialist
10:30 AM on 02/07/2013
if, in your belief, this is written in stone, whats your opinion on this?

35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

(2) In this Act, "aboriginal peoples of Canada" includes the Indian, Inuit, and Metis peoples of Canada.

(3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) "treaty rights" includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the aboriginal and treaty rights referred to in subsection (1) are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.
01:44 PM on 02/07/2013
Nice observation.
07:55 PM on 02/06/2013
I know of a lot of children that are switching to catholic school from public at high school just for the extra caricular activities.
10:56 AM on 02/09/2013
I know that when I was in the Catholic school many of the "extracurricular activities" were decidedly in opposition to catholic teachings on sex and drugs.

I had a lot of fun there.
07:44 PM on 02/06/2013
I went to public school in Ontario in the 1950s. Since I was not Roman Catholic I never attended a Catholic school, but I had friends who did and I couldn't see where they had any problem. Many of the students at Catholic schools excelled and went on to great careers.
If you look back at history, were it not for Church schools, there would have been no schools.
I believe in our FREE society, there is a place for religious schools; Catholic, Evangelical, Muslim or whatever the need, including secular for those who do not wish their children to have a faith. My only concern is that they all provide the same basic curriculum as set down by the province.
01:45 PM on 02/07/2013
Thanks for the vote of confidence for the catholic school system.
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baizhongtang
Reality has an anti-neoliberal agenda
05:34 PM on 02/06/2013
Reopening the Constitution? Why not?

Oh, while we're at it, there are a few dozen more items to address if we are going to do that... :D
10:55 PM on 02/06/2013
Exactly. Let's not and say we didn't.
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AcunningDisguise
magnus gigas caput
08:18 PM on 02/07/2013
Defunding religion is reason enough all by itself.
05:08 PM on 02/06/2013
AMEN!!!! I have been saying this exact thing for soooo long. We need one healthy public system where every student in this province has equal opportunity to the best possible education. It's about fairness, equality and a just society. Having a "separate" system does nothing but further divide us and increase the gap in quality of education.
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Dolly Lama
I think too much
04:52 PM on 02/06/2013
I agree we should not have our hard earned taxes spent on special interest groups! My mother received such cruelty at the hands of the nuns that taught her that we were forbidden to attend the local Catholic Church, she gave us complete freedom to attend any other church we chose!
02:52 PM on 02/06/2013
Although there is a a small degree of duplication of services and expense to provide multiple boards of education, the number of students, the size of classrooms and the basic academic criteria are the same regardless. What I'm saying is the same number of schools, serving the same number of students, taught by the same number of teachers, requiring the same number of support staff would be required.

Like most "amalgamation will provide cost savings" arguments, this one falls apart easily. Who believes that regional level amalgamation actually has benefited most citizens? Not me. Service levels have gone down, taxes up. I doubt the whole "get rid of Catholic schools" topic's validity.

I also question the writer's motives and premise.
08:52 PM on 02/09/2013
The Catholic public schools are overrepresented in the rural areas, which coincidentally is where the utilization rates of public schools are significantly lower (as low as 35%, where 90% is considered to be optimal) and where transportation costs are higher. A small proportion of those currently enrolled in Catholic public schools will be enrolled in private religious schools in the absence of denominational public schools. There is a difference between amalgamation and merging.

Education property taxes are actually decreasing. The education property tax rate are less for commercial properties constructed since 2007 and the province, I believe, is gradually reducing the education property tax rate for commercial properties constructed prior to 2007 to eventually be equal to the properties constructed since 2007. The total education property taxes collected from residential properties are staying constant (which actually means a decline when inflation is taken into account) due to the fact that the rate is decreasing each assessment cycle increases the residential property values. Danny Handelman
01:46 PM on 02/06/2013
If it's not just the Catholics that send their kids to Catholic school, but also the Greek Orthodox, the Jewish and the Muslim then maybe we should have a closer look at why those folks don't like the curriculum and the way it is presented in public system. The ridiculous urge in the public system to teach kids explicit sex ed at ever younger ages is definitely one of them. Whatever happened to teaching my kids how to read, write and do math? Instead they're taught gender identity at grade 3, oral and anal intercourse and masturbation at grade 7... The TDSB is a joke in many different ways. I pay for my kids Catholic education through my property taxes and thank God (pun intended) they didn't have to go through any strike or work to rule nonsense.
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baizhongtang
Reality has an anti-neoliberal agenda
05:41 PM on 02/06/2013
Sure, and why don't we take down the entire internet so your kids aren't exposed to a reality you don't like, while we're at it...

Face it, freedom of information means the hundreds of lies told by "good" parents such as yourself will ever-more-quickly be exposed for what they are. But hey, maybe you can afford to live in one of those fortress communities that more and more rich conservative people are building to "protect" their families from the mess that THEY created.

Way to try to subvert a debate...
09:40 AM on 02/07/2013
I DO take down whole parts of the internet using parental controls available to me through software. I don't need to have my little kids see all the pornographic filth that's available there. It's "reality" as you call it, that they can deal with at a much older age. I don't need the public school system to make that call for my kids either. That's why I like my Catholic choice and that was relevant to the debate!

It funny to see the fighters for "freedom of information" like yourself fight to push YOUR version of reality down MY throat. It's also amazing to see how quickly you can judge me, by one article. Apparently you amazing analytical skills can determine [1] I tell lies, [2] I'm a bad parent, [3] live in a fortress community, [4] am rich [5] conservative and [6] created this mess myself. Take another look in the mirror and figure out who's the narrow minded judgmental type.
11:17 AM on 02/08/2013
You obviously don't have children. What asinine things to say.

Children don't need to know about any sexual acts and they don't need to be brainwashed about homosexuality as toddlers.

With increased sex education, the number of teen pregnancies has sky rocketed & increased education about "safe" sex (a misnomer since there is no such thing) STDs have sky rocketed -- children don't need to be informed about sex. They need to be taught about math, reading & art & history etc.
11:13 AM on 02/08/2013
You're absolutely right on every point.

Public schools in SW Ontario have been handed over to sex education & explaining homosexuality & why bobby has two mommies, they've been turned into ghetto's where bullying, sex, racism & violence are rampant. The teachers & principals do nothing and are only interested in fighting for their bloated benefits, salaries, unions & pensions meanwhile students & parents are on their own when their children are being attacked , terrorized or molested. (a four year old girl was trying to kiss the boys on the mouth, using tongue.great huh?)

If anyone objects you're called a homophobe or a prude or an irresponsible parent who want to put their kids in the basement , like the other comments replying to your opinion.

There are real problems & dangers in Ontario public schools and that is why parents are fleeing to Jewish, Muslim,Christian, Hindu etc. schools. It's not just for religious teachings, its to keep their children safe & innocent for as long as possible. That is being a loving, responsible parent.
01:15 PM on 02/06/2013
Having been in the Saskatoon Catholic school system, I can say it is a HUGE waste of taxpayer money to be supporting what should be elective studies. This must stop.
01:48 PM on 02/07/2013
That's not the case in Ontario.The catholic school system is flourishing in Ontario.Probably too whitebread in Sasktoon? a little more multi-cultural society in the Ontario population.
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Sandra MacKay
08:13 PM on 02/07/2013
White bread is tasty!! And have you been to Saskatoon to make that expert observation.
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Joe Nosotti
in the middle so I can go left or right
01:04 PM on 02/06/2013
Considering the current labour situation in the public system I'm glad there is a choice.
11:18 AM on 02/08/2013
There is no 'choice' if you're not Catholic.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Joe Nosotti
in the middle so I can go left or right
10:07 AM on 02/09/2013
I'll let the students that are Hindu and Muslim that are attending school with my children know.
09:01 PM on 02/09/2013
Choice is in the form of private school, home schooling or moving to a different school catchment area. Primary Catholic schools have the choice to reject admission to non-Catholics and Catholic schools have the choice to reject prospective teachers because they are non-Catholic. Danny Handelman
10:53 AM on 02/06/2013
Education Religion. They are pretty much opposites considering most highly religious people feel the need to take a stance against the evils of science whenever it challenges their beliefs. Separate them already and give us ONE public school system that makes sense. Anyone can supplement their kids' education to include whatever they like, but public funding for it at this point is ridiculous.

Just another issue our politicians are too spineless to discuss.
10:22 AM on 02/06/2013
The main reason government pays for catholic school is because they claim education is a public good. Also because if they cut off all education funding to be "equal" then education would be highly unaffordable for many as the burden is shifted from provincial taxes to local property taxes. Good luck dealing with people who see a massive spike on their property tax bills.
08:38 PM on 02/06/2013
Please reread the article because you missed something. No one is suggesting all funding be cut for all education.
10:05 AM on 02/06/2013
I'm definitely with you on this one, Aviva.

The notion that funding for Roman Catholic school is guaranteed in the BNA Act (now, called the Constitution Act of 1867) is a notion promoted by the Roman Catholic apologists and is not accurate. The Act enables provinces that had funding for minority religious schools in place before Confederation to continue with that. In Ontario's case, that was the Scott Act that guaranteed funding to the end of grade 8. All additional funding is the result of legislation.

All the other provinces that had publicly funded religious schools have abandoned them. You are right Ontario politicians need to get this done.
10:16 PM on 02/06/2013
Alberta's Catholic system is alive and well. In larger centres it creates some, probably healthy competition, between schools and school divisions. In smaller, rural, areas it divides limited student population meaning many subjects aren't taught as well and both schools struggle to provide a basic set of courses. Generally, the teaching suffers as teachers are pulled too broad.
09:03 PM on 02/09/2013
How do you define "healthy competition"?
10:19 PM on 02/06/2013
Your post is completely inaccurate. The Supreme Court of Canada in 1987 in the Bill 30 Reference case explicitly stated that Roman Catholic funding is guaranteed by s.93(1). Any attempt to reduce or eliminate that funding would be unconstitutional. Other provinces can repeal funding because they were not part of the 1867 Constitution. Ontario cannot. The only way it can be changed is through a constitutional amendment, which history has taught us is a practical impossibility.