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Why Some Women Will Never Be Happy With Proof of Equality

Posted: 08/16/2012 5:02 pm

Few topics stir up more heated debate than how women fare in the workforce. Bloomberg columnist Ramesh Ponnuru recently took on this issue, soberly detailing research that shows discrimination isn't the primary reason why men continue to out-earn women.

As Ponnuru explains, some politicians and activists continue to use the statistic that women earn just 77 per cent of what men earn, implying that this is the gap that exists between your average male and female coworkers. But in fact, once factors such as occupation choice and hours worked are taken into account, just a small fraction of that gap remains.

It's not just conservatives who reach this conclusion: Studies by the American Association of University Women and the General Accounting Office have found the same. Researchers vary on how much of a gap lingers after controlling for men and women's different choices, but there's a near consensus that a large portion of that 77-cents-on-the-dollar gap has nothing to do with workplace discrimination.

As AEI's Christina Hoff Sommers concludes in a forthcoming book, "evidence of systemic gender discrimination by American employers is nowhere to be found."

Yet the bearers of this good news for women -- and it is good news, after all, that women aren't subjected to pervasive workplace discrimination -- are derided as women's enemies. The website Jezebel, for example, sneered that the true message of Ponnuru's column was that women should "shut up" about workplace discrimination and warned readers that they would want to "smack his smug face" after reading his column. Why are cheerleaders for women's equality so disturbed by research revealing that their cause is further along than they thought?

Presumably it's because those advocates want government to do more to help women's cause, and they believe exaggerating the problems women face will encourage action. Feminist groups constantly trumpet the Paycheck Fairness Act, for example, as a "solution" to the wage gap. Yet what this legislation would actual do is just make it easier for workers to sue employers for discrimination that's already illegal.

Some may believe that a bigger legal stick will lead to better worker treatment, but it seems just as likely to backfire on women by making the workforce less flexible, potentially-litigious female employees less attractive hires, and discouraging job creation.

Those who would have Ponnuru and others who question the "77-cents-on-the-dollar" mantra themselves "shut up" should consider what message they send young women entering the workforce. Is it really helpful for young women to assume that their bosses (and keep in mind that a majority of managers in the U.S. today are women) are overwhelmingly sexists? Wouldn't it be better if these young women had a sense of how the choices they make -- the careers they choose, the specialties they enter, and the work-schedules they arrange -- affect their earnings both now and in the future?

Some scholars believe that one driver of the remaining, unexplained wage gap is that women are less likely than men to negotiate their salaries. This deserves a lot more investigation and discussion. After all, that's useful information as I consider my next salary negotiation or a future job offer. As the mother of three girls, I can help make my daughters comfortable with talking about money and remind them of the importance of speaking up for themselves and their worth.

These are conversations that are worth having. And so-called women's advocates aren't living up to their name when they refuse to consider the evidence and move beyond the women-as-victim mantra.

Carrie Lukas is the managing director of the Independent Women's Forum.

 
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Mark Neil
My micro-bio is empty.
03:02 PM on 08/26/2012
You can see other examples of this refusal to accept success. When the graduation ratio was 44% women, 56% men, this was deemed unacceptable and evidence of discrimination. Now that the ratio is 60% women and 40% men, this has again been deemed unacceptable... there still aren't enough women in STEM fields.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
08:42 AM on 08/20/2012
In part from the acutal referenced article:

"Increasing the number of women in traditionally male fields is likely to
improve wages for women, but it is unlikely to fully eliminate the pay
gap. The gender pay gap among workers in the traditionally male fields of
science, technology, engineering, and mathematics is smaller than the gap
found in the overall workforce; however, a pay gap still exists in these fields,
with women earning less than men.22"

This is just one obvservation of many contained in this report supposedly supporting this blogger's assertion. The blogger is chery picking and simply being completely dishonest about what the AAUW report acutally states.

No wonder she appears on Fox News.
01:38 AM on 08/19/2012
The title of the article fits perfectly with many of the comments, there is a large group of women who will always be crying VICTIM regardless of the statistics. I am beginning to think that women should never be put in any job that has responsibility or importance as they are too easily victimized and unable to overcome adversity always requiring protection. Sorry to all those hard working women who "made it" through hard work and determination (welcome to the club you deserve it!) but these feminists are really dragging you down as they cry in the corner of the room in a big ball of victim.
12:00 AM on 08/19/2012
It's saddening that the author's statements are proving themselves true right here in this forum .
Rather than celebrate the good news that there is no wage gap , some people insist on defending the rather implausible likelihood that there is one .
How is that even possible ? It's mostly women who do the hiring (check out your nearest HR department) It's mostly women who are managing . It's mostly women who are giving out promotions and raises . Do they discriminate against women too ?
There have been laws in place for decades that forbid sexist business practices . There are plenty of avenues open to rectify any perceived discrimination . We even have favoritism that benefits women in the workplace .

Now we have study after study saying that while there may be sexual discrimination in the workplace , it's rare and if there's a wage gap at all , it comes down to choices people make .
Rather than celebrate , some deny , get angry , and insist that they're victims .
Well , maybe they are but it's not necessarily because of their sex . The point is that if things aren't so bad , why insist that they are ?
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08:25 AM on 08/20/2012
"Now we have study after study saying that while there may be sexual discrimination in the workplace , it's rare and if there's a wage gap at all , it comes down to choices people make ."

If you go to the Wikipedia entry for the AAUW, it states that the entry appears to be unsourced, and "written as an advertisement". If you go their web site, or do a google search, you find self referential links to various AAUW affiliated groups. So, all we really know is that organzation exists, without knowing anything about who is funding it?

Lets assume for a second that AAUW study has some validity. What can YOU offer in peer-reviewed, acadamic review of it by non right wing think tank affiliated individuals. Given that the IWF is really only a right wing front group that calls itself "Independant", combined with the fact this blogger appears on FOX News, hardly the home of "objective reporting", you aren't making any kind of case that supports your assertions. The Onus IS NOT on those who object to this blogger's post, the onus is on YOU to make the case she should be taken SERIOUSLY AT ALL.

Well?
03:18 PM on 08/18/2012
Women have grown up being fed a diet of victimology. Everything must be blamed on some external force of why women didn't do, or haven't done something or another. Name me a time or place in all the world or in all of history where women believe they haven't been oppressed?

The power of eternal victimhood is immeasurable. Charities, quota's, encouragement, laws all favor women over men. Reparations must always be paid to the victims and a victims words always overide the oppressors. After all, who doesn't want to help a victim?
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08:27 AM on 08/20/2012
And what about all these "Christians" or Right Wing Politicians who complain about attacks from the "Liberal Media". How is their claiming of the mantle of victim any different? What you are really about is someone who dislikes the fact that women won't shut up and know their place. If you have a case, make one with serious acadeimic, peer-reviewed, verifible, research. Otherwise, get out fo the way.
Seamus OMalley
My micro-bio is no longer empty.
10:44 AM on 08/18/2012
If you could get away with paying a woman 77% of what a man makes, why would anyone hire a man?
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Gnomish
ego doctus ignarus
07:50 PM on 08/17/2012
I find women who refuse an opened door rather rude, I do the same for anyone!
03:01 PM on 08/17/2012
The women on Jeezabel and others like them don't want equality. They will not stop until the in-equality is fully the other way. That is there goal

These women never wish to discuss how work place deaths are 94% male (4322 men 348 women in the US in 2010). Or that 80% of homeless are male. And god save you if you bring up that men still pay 96% of alimony and child support, even while 70% of divorces are instigates by women or that by a 3/2 margin more women are in or graduating from university than men. While they spend much effort on CEO positions and corporate boards I have yet to see them argue the ratio when it comes to dangerous occupations. When was the last time any woman's org published a call for more women coal miners or lumberjacks?

What should be noted is that men are finally smartening up and fleeing marriage and kids now. There is nothing in it for them any more.
11:45 AM on 08/17/2012
Feminists and females rights activists are going too far, when they get equality, they still want more yet still expecting all courtesies and respect traditionally offered to women (ladies first). I'm calling for a male rights protection movement!
03:45 PM on 08/18/2012
it already exists. Google "A voice for men".
09:52 AM on 08/21/2012
Great Name by the way.
AVFM.com is a good place to start, there's lots of Mens Rights Groups out there now. Just be careful, some strive for a true moral equality between Men and Women. Others are simply the Male equivalent to Jezebel, full of Anger, Hate and Vitriol.
Humanism is the True Equality. Have a Good Day, Fellow Canuck.
08:27 AM on 08/17/2012
Any Canadian studies on this? I read part of the study but can't see where the stats come from. Corporations? Government? Small businesses?
Personally, I think it is important that women recognize both aspects of this. There is sexism and there are choices in careers.
Why ignore any of it?
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08:20 AM on 08/17/2012
A right winger quotes other right wingers, who spout nonsense that other academic researchers have already shown is false, and then she expects us to believe it. Ever hear of the big lie? You keep telling people the same thing over and over untill they believe you. Keep it up Carrie.
06:23 PM on 08/18/2012
There is an enormous body of research from all over the world on this issue. You would do well to actually research it a bit instead of parroting your radical feminist conspiracy theories. You are exactly the type of person being referred to here.
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08:03 AM on 08/20/2012
Okay, then educate me. Provide links to academically, peer reserached, non right wing think tank studies that prove your point. Well, how about it?
12:45 AM on 08/19/2012
To dismiss this article, the people who wrote/contributed to it, and the studies it references is the height of denialism. These are legitimate statistics the point out the progress the women's movement has made, and suggest ways it can change to further address iniquities. You're doing nobody any favors by blindly labeling these people "right wingers" and ignoring their contribution to the discussion.
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08:03 AM on 08/20/2012
Okay, I say to you as I did to another poster above, provide links to academically, peer reserached, non right wing think tank studies that prove your point. Well, how about it?
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CarlyQ
Without followers, evil cannot spread.
11:43 PM on 08/16/2012
Not so long ago I was hired as a Lab Tech I Supervisor for an industrial lubricants corporations, at the same time a Lab Tech I R & D Supervisor (male) was hired We started out at the same salary, he sporting a diploma in Kinesiology and me sporting one in Microbiology. Within a year, he was making double what I was making, while photos of me with our lab equipment was being passed around as makeshift porn within the company without my knowledge or consent (as if).

Tell me again that sexism as it pertains to female salaries doesn't exist.
07:14 AM on 08/17/2012
The makeshift porn is sexual harassment. Sexual harassment happens to both sexes within the workplace which is why it is illegal. What steps did you take, to have those who passed around those photos, dealt with? What did your superiors say when you brought this to their attention? If they did nothing, who did you go to next?
When you found out that this other person was all of a sudden making double what you were making, did you discuss this with supervisors? How many times had you ask for a raise and got denied?
Bianca S
You can't go trick-or-treating. Ever. For a week
09:18 AM on 08/17/2012
"Sexual harassment happens to both sexes within the workplace which is why it is illegal"

Umm, no that's not why things become illegal but thanks for coming out.
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CarlyQ
Without followers, evil cannot spread.
09:54 AM on 08/17/2012
It was, unfortunately, management - right up to the CEO - who did this. I didn't do anything - too young, too naive, too vulnerable - so I ended up quitting when the "joking" started to turn into unwanted touching. Perhaps I should have fought it but it would have taken a lot of money, time and energy to fight what was clearly a deeply ingrained corporate culture of "old boy's club" mentality.
04:28 PM on 08/17/2012
First off, how do you know how much he makes? Secondly, it seems highly unlikely that the man's salary doubled in a year's time. Sorry, your vague story doesn't add up.
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CarlyQ
Without followers, evil cannot spread.
11:11 PM on 08/17/2012
We were engaged.
10:33 PM on 08/16/2012
women have it made. stop whining and complaining. feminists only make you worse and not you. feminists are angry about everything that has to do with men, which means they are angry all they time. and this anger brings out the worst in them. it's not worth it. life is better than that.
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08:16 AM on 08/17/2012
Says you. And you know this how? What is your gender? It is pretty obvious what mean is. Well, we are all waiting.
09:55 PM on 08/17/2012
does it matter what my gender is? feminists are disliked by men and real women alike.  they are bunch of angry women with post-menstrual cohort leading the pack.  all their ideas are to put men down so why would anyone want to deal with feminists in a respectful way?
08:34 PM on 08/16/2012
You are a woman.....why so negative about women and so hard on them with so many generalizations...if you truly believe these stats, why not present them in a non female negative way...sad to see young women who have so many advantages due to the efforts of other women be so negative toward their own
07:25 AM on 08/17/2012
She isn't being negative she is stating the truth, the '77% difference' is also a generalization but I bet you would have no problem pushing that statistic at a feminist rally. If she were to present these stats in a non-female negative way, you and everyone like you would be jumping down HIS (because that's what you are, if non-feamle) throat and calling him a sexist pig without being able to think rationally. While also looking at the authors job, I would imagine that she is very thankful to the women of the past. I'm sure she is very thankful that she can vote and very thankful to those women who put things like sexual harassment on the legal map, but while being thankful, understands that the year is now 2012, and at some point the onus returns back to us, females.
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06:54 PM on 08/17/2012
How is Lukas being negative about women? She's being negative about people who misuse statistics, but that's about the extent of it.
09:15 PM on 08/18/2012
Perhaps because her entire article references women
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Gnomish
ego doctus ignarus
07:57 PM on 08/16/2012
Your far braver then I gender advantage or no.