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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Robert C Lawson
justice & human rights for all
11:40 AM on 12/13/2012
more damned if you do and damned if you dont, no wonder this country is such a mess??,..what really matters, is that our people get the best gear for the money, the rest is window dressing for politicals and has no place in military procurement at all,, as we can see, no?..Too much "buddy/pal" in play and not enough of the real people,..I want to hear that there will be no 'helicopter payoffs" by and for equimpemnt lobbyists etc, had enough of those as well already,??.. is this so?.. anyone?..
11:40 AM on 12/13/2012
Don't you love how some politician destroys something then fades into the background? Take Bob Rae bankrupts Ontario and now wants to run the Liberal party and people will vote for him.
When will there be legislation that puts some accountability on these inept ego's for their mindless adventures.
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fromdnorth
OK I checked my micro-bio (didn't know I had one
11:48 AM on 12/13/2012
Many people with dimentia recall the long time files and forget the most recent: Mike Harris and Harpes..
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
YankinCanada
Two opposing idealogues walk into a liberal bar...
12:52 PM on 12/13/2012
Hahahaha, Rae was handed a dump pile of debt by Harris and you're trying to blame Rae////meanwhile the cons fail upward and now Flahahahahahahahaherty is ruining Canada. Grow up.
02:04 PM on 12/13/2012
Get your facts straight Rae was the priemer before Harris. Harris cleaned up his dump fool.
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sonoffestus
Got smart & got out!
11:07 AM on 12/13/2012
Cons have nothing but lies and propaganda. They historicaly grow government and debt all the while spouting how fiscal conservative they are. Liars, crooks and thieves, the bunch of them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rich Turner
Lies , Deception, No Exception...
11:04 AM on 12/13/2012
Forget fiscal credibility. Forget any credibility. I wouldnt let harper serve me a cheeseburger. He has done nothing for Canadian values around the world and has dirtied our reputation and credibility all around the world.
12:42 PM on 12/13/2012
Care for specifics are just blanket statements
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rich Turner
Lies , Deception, No Exception...
12:46 PM on 12/13/2012
Specifically everything,
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
10:36 AM on 12/13/2012
I think this whole debacle can be laid at the feet of Steve's "Branding" initiative.
Everything is 'branded' a conservative plan or project ect ect.
The original deal was a good one.
The conservatives sought to take ownership of that deal and brand it a conservative success.
I mean it was pretty sexy stuff.
Fancy planes, big contracts for canadian areospace industry and the obvious bragging rights for the procurement of cutting edge fighter planes for Canada's armed forces.
It was sure thing.
Then Lockheed Martin started coming up short.
Big time.
And the Torys were stuck holding a hot mess.
With "Conservative" branded all over it.
They say 'membership has its privledges'.
Ownership can be a stone cold **tch
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
10:48 AM on 12/13/2012
don't blame Lockheed Martin. Everyone knows they're shady. Back when Ignatieff was calling out Harper for misleading Canadians, other countries were already complaining about the soaring costs of these jets while Stevie was sweeping it under the rug while bragging about them on the campaign trail and demonizing Ignatieff for speaking the truth... Now, they're using McKay as a scapegoat when Harper was privy to this information the whole time! One less PC to compete for top spot?? I think so...
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Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
11:00 AM on 12/13/2012
Lockheed Martin is supposed to have planes ready to go by now.At a price, as determined by ours and others participation in the original deal.Iggy was talking out of both sides of his face when criticising the Torys for managing a deal cut by the liberals in 2002.A lot of people seemed to have the same opinion.As the liberals current standing in the house would indicate. 
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10:27 AM on 12/13/2012
I don't understand the headline. It persists in the myth that the tories had any fiscal credibility left. That ship sailed within a year of taking office. This is a government of reckless spending, strange spending priorities, spending growth, and revenue destruction.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
10:51 AM on 12/13/2012
This is a myth that can never be destroyed, unfortunately... People hear conservative and they just assume they're good with money. It benefits those Republicans in the states time and again, despite history proving that they've destroyed the economy time and time again... Same goes for the Cons. Look up the last time the Conservative Party left government with a surplus.... It's been a long while.
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
10:20 AM on 12/13/2012
A lot of people here (including myself) often fall into the trap of thinking that Mr Harper and the reformCPC apparatchiks and stooges currently claiming leadership in this country. Nay. Mr Harper is merely the last visible link in the power chain. Mr Harper is a theocrat and his religion is continuous war, perpetual debt and planned obsolescence.

Mr Harper is a creature of Ayn Rand and this fact must be regarded when considering Mr Harper's motivations and actions..
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ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
11:24 AM on 12/13/2012
Is there proof that he subscribes to Ayn Rand's philosophy?! I'd like to see that if there is, because that would be really damning... He is a theocrat, that's for sure, but Ayn Rand was basically an anarchist.
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
11:28 AM on 12/13/2012
An anarchist? Really? Swinganamiss. She was the founder of the philosophy of Objectivism - essentially indistinguishable from Mr Harper's Straussian Dominionism. All fish from the same school. 
10:19 AM on 12/13/2012
It’s a total fiasco, a disaster of biblical proportions. Did I miss something? Have we purchased one plane? Given the standing US Government the US Air Force not to mention the US Congress has no idea as to the cost of this Aircraft, Mulcair and Rae must be clairvoyant financial geniuses.
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MissingTheExpos
Most geniuses are conceited...I'm the exception.
10:14 AM on 12/13/2012
Looks like the CPC saw an expensive toy, got all excited about owning them and then when the deal started to turn south they covered up to save their massive egos the pain of admitting they made a mistake.
I am not going to say this is something solely perpetrated by the Conservatives, any government with any political leanings is not above mistakes, but would it kill you to admit the mistake? Isn't that what we teach our children, that it is better to tell the truth than lie about fact?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
10:51 AM on 12/13/2012
Steve needs to a have a little sit-down with canadians and explain the whole story.
From begining to end.
Admit their mistakes, explain how much has been spent and on what and take leadership of the whole silly mess.
I think if people where made aware of the facts, the pressure would be off almost immediately.
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Wild Thing
Say What?!
10:58 AM on 12/13/2012
You are correct that it's better to tell the truth than lie about the fact, but for people with some particular personality disorders, admitting mistakes, apologizing and telling the truth are just not part of who/what they are. Instead, they are secretive, evasive, deceitful, manipulative, controlling and abusive. Those are traits of the Cluster B personality disorders. Those are traits we see consistently within the CPC.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
YankinCanada
Two opposing idealogues walk into a liberal bar...
11:11 AM on 12/13/2012
So it is more of a character trait (flaw) and the ideology is a projection of said flaws?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hculliton
Match bearings and shoot!
10:11 AM on 12/13/2012
We should have gone with the Super Hornet from the start.
10:57 AM on 12/13/2012
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Reality is, we're nothing more than Monday morning armchair quarterbacks here.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hculliton
Match bearings and shoot!
03:25 PM on 12/13/2012
True, but e-mailing my MP occasionally does make me feel better at least!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
10:11 AM on 12/13/2012
They tore down Ignatieff for stating exactly what is becoming clear facts for all Canadians. Harper & Co. have misled Canadians and put us on the hook for these ridiculous fighter jets from Dick Cheney's Locheed Martin.. The Liberals deserve some credit here. Prior to the last election they were ringing the alarm on this one.
10:58 AM on 12/13/2012
Did Iggy even reside in Canada?
11:15 AM on 12/13/2012
... yeah good point man,

how the heck does Ignatieff know so much more about the realities of the F-35 purchase then the CPC?

when A) He's not even a part of the body responsible for the purchase

and B) He might not even live in Canada

it realy makes you question this guys credibility and definately makes the Conservatives look like there on top of things
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
11:43 AM on 12/13/2012
No, he was actually acting as a Canadian MP while working at Harvard. I heard he never even stepped foot in Parliament! :O

#ConsbelieveANYthing
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Another Pesky Canadian
Talk - action = 0
10:10 AM on 12/13/2012
"Fiscal credibility"? Cons now lack credibility of any kind whatsoever.

Time to resign as a group.
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
10:08 AM on 12/13/2012
These ReformCPC corporatists are the antithesis of fiscal responsibility. Socially irresponsible and collectively irrational, their ideologies are built from greed and fear.
11:02 AM on 12/13/2012
I kinda agree.

They've moved waaay too far to the Left. Canadians need a substantial break on taxes and many nanny-state programs need their funding reduced or outright eliminated.
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freeSpeakr
I stand on the shoulders of giants
11:29 AM on 12/13/2012
Aha … another objectivist … that explains a lot.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
11:57 AM on 12/13/2012
So... What's your take on the fact that the Liberals balanced the budget and Paul Martin acted far more fiscally "conservative" than this bunch of Neo-Cons?
mrytlesgirdle
Refuse to live a life of regret.
09:54 AM on 12/13/2012
Disregarding the huge cost which the CPC tried to hide at every turn, I could never understand for the life of me why we would ever even consider a single engine jet in a country with the most serious heavy duty winter in the world. Secondly why would we need a "first" strike jet? I know the Canadian military wants to carry it's own weight on missions but there has to be a level of responsible fiscal thought here, we are a country of 35 million. We just don't have the tax base or the surpluses we once did in order to accomplish this purchase.
11:16 AM on 12/13/2012
Single-engine aircraft technology has been vastly improved. You gotta remember, when the F-18 concept was born, around 1985, the first cell phone call was made.

Also, at the altitudes the fighter will fly most of the time, the outside temp is -50C or colder, winter or summer.
mrytlesgirdle
Refuse to live a life of regret.
11:35 AM on 12/13/2012
It's not the temp in the air it's the temperature on the ground in case you have to bail which is still more likely with a single engine and no copilot. Now, before anyone jumps down my throat I have been an Air Force wife for 28 years and have only recently been posted out of a northern base. Bailing happens more than the public is aware and it is a very real concern to pilots and their rescuers.
09:21 AM on 12/13/2012
The F-35 fiasco is a direct result of Harper's decisiveness. Harper's foresight was, as I've said many times, circumcised at birth. He has no depth perception and he's a mark who's been had over and over again by Israel, the US, Enbridge, the UN and Beady Eyed Tom Flanagan.
But, Harper dives right in with theatrical verve and Mussolini passion.
For all that, he's still a hillbilly with zero business, law or history background, surrounded by like kind. Kenney is a bible school dropoout, for God's sake!
09:36 AM on 12/13/2012
Yes, trying to live up to Chretien's obligations was folly, indeed. Hopefully, Canada will never have to endure the mismanagement of a Liberal govt again.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Overt Enigma
YOUR micro bio is empty
09:57 AM on 12/13/2012
F35 contract was tendered on the Conservative's watch, not the Liberal gov't. This is all Harper, HoR.

I'd rather take your definition of Liberal Gov't mismanagement, with the surpluses and paying down the debt, than the shadowy antics of Herr Harper's 'management' any day. Twice on Sundays.
09:59 AM on 12/13/2012
Are you people on the right incapable of taking responsibility for anything that you do?

Harper has been in office since 2005. If his government thought that anything that Mr. Chretien did non this file needed to be corrected, they had more than ample time to do so. Instead, with a remarkable degree of stealth, he charged ahead with the project despite doubts raised about the planes in a number of other countries, with an attitude of condescension and guile. Nobody forced him to do it.

Next you will be trying to blame Sir Wilfrid Laurier...