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11:40 AM on 01/17/2013
OH and instead of 600 billion national debt , norway has 700 billion or more in its bank and owns 1% of the worlds stock markets

what does the harper way get you
after had trudeau managed to control and have a antional energy plan we'd be in the same boat.
11:57 AM on 01/17/2013
Do your homework. Norway's external debt is well over $600 million.
compro01
Conservatism : Policy-based evidence making
12:10 PM on 01/17/2013
You appear to be confusing million and billion.

Norway's government debt is approximately 240 billion US dollars.

Norway's sovereign wealth fund (the Government Pension Fund - Global, previously known as the Government Petroleum Fund) contains assets worth approximately 700 billion US dollars.

In short, Norway could pay off their debt almost three times over. But it would be stupid for them to do that, because they're making 12-15% annually off the fund's investments, vs. the 4-6% they're paying on their bonds.
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progressivebeat
Turn it up or turn it off.
01:05 PM on 01/17/2013
Do your math. $600 million is not $600 billion.
11:38 AM on 01/17/2013
didnt read the rest i know ill get depressed especially after you mention how cool norway did it all....
its the way it should have been done but it wasnt cause the people in charge are in reality traitors to the rest of us, they would rather screw us for there benefit
and they have....
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Peter Burgess1
12:30 PM on 01/17/2013
"its the way it should have been done but it wasnt cause the people in charge are in reality traitors to the rest of us, they would rather screw us for there benefit
and they have...."

You mean when all the provinces got together 100+ years ago to work out a framework on hwo to work become a country and it was decided that each province should have dominion over their own resources? THOSE traitors? lol.

Traitorous is being perfectly ok for 100 years to let BC's forestry belong to BC and Sask's wheat belong to Sask and Ontarios' mining belong to Ontario and Atlantic Canada's fisheries belong to them but as soon as one province is making a lot of money off a resource well then all of a sudden it's time to change the ruels and start thowing the word "TRAITOR" everywhere.
05:01 PM on 01/17/2013
no the ones that got in the way of trudeaus vision that was effectively more or less the same one as norway, that instead of 600 billion debt we'd prolly be way more then norway our eocnomy is 5 times as large one could say if norway has 1% of the worlds stock markets following there way we'd have 4-5 %
thats real umf in the world....and its treason when you know you are doing something that harms our nation this is what they are deliberately doing

sorry if you can't see it.
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Peter Burgess1
11:18 AM on 01/17/2013
"While Norway has plans to become carbon neutral by 2050, Canada's and Alberta's efforts have been "embarrassingly inadequate.""

lol. While Chretien signed Canada up to the *single* highest goals of any energy producing nation in the world, Norway met it's Kyoto demands by only increasing it's GHG output bu 5%.

To compare non-existant progress with actual progress is pretty silly.
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10:46 AM on 01/17/2013
what an embarrassment for a country of only 35 million people ... where is our wealth going to ..what is going on ... GOD I MISS TRUDEAU
11:42 AM on 01/17/2013
ya had he succeeded in national enenergy we'd be where norway is times 5
we after all have 5 times as many people and land
10:43 AM on 01/17/2013
conservatives couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag ... special interest run CANADA NOT THE PEOPLE
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Peter Burgess1
10:28 AM on 01/17/2013
1. Norway is its own country and doesn't pay billions in taxes and transfer payments to other entities.

2. Norway for decades, has produced 2-3 times as much oil as Alberta and 5 times as much natural gas as Canada. Not really surprising then that they can save more money is it?
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
10:52 AM on 01/17/2013
1. Who are these "other entities" other than Canada itself ?

2. We have 6x their population but have 20x their wealth in natural resources. We have no excuse other than we, as Canadians, love money and ourselves more than we love our country, it's that simple.
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Peter Burgess1
11:10 AM on 01/17/2013
"1. Who are these "other entities" other than Canada itself ?"

Canada itself. There needs to be someone else?

" but have 20x their wealth in natural resources."

Um no we don't. lol. You can also fit 12 Norways in Canada.
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11:08 AM on 01/17/2013
'billions in taxes and transfer payments to other entities'
Give it a rest! Same old story to make up for years mismanagement by conservatives
Spit it out, socialists in Norway are better resource and fiscal managers
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Peter Burgess1
11:11 AM on 01/17/2013
'billions in taxes and transfer payments to other entities'
Give it a rest!

Why? Because you don't like reality?

" Same old story to make up for years mismanagement by conservatives"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....he says after 12 years of mismanagement by the Liberals.
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Peter Burgess1
11:16 AM on 01/17/2013
"Norway set up its Government Pension Fund Global in 1990. It is now the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world at $664 billion and continues to grow.

By contrast, the Alberta Heritage Savings Fund, set up by the Lougheed government in 1976, contains only about $16 billion."

....while giving out billions in federal taxes every year.

If you don't like the reality of math then perhaps YOU should "give it a rest".
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tokenblackman
10:23 AM on 01/17/2013
We could sure use the old gov't Petro Canada right now.
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Peter Burgess1
10:29 AM on 01/17/2013
Gee then I guess Chretien shouldn't have let it go broke.
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tokenblackman
10:54 AM on 01/17/2013
And I thought that the Mulroney and the Conservatives were in power when the decision was made to sell Petro Canada shares. Tell me Peter how did Chertien sell a crown corp while in Opposition?
11:09 AM on 01/17/2013
Right, blame the Liberals
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tokenblackman
10:18 AM on 01/17/2013
Someone needs to explain why does crude from the oil sands sell for less than market value to the US?
12:10 PM on 01/17/2013
Combination of higher processing and transportation costs. We ship bitumen to the states, which requires more processing, so is of lesser value.

The bigger question is why aren't we refining to finished product in Canada and shipping that to the US? Why are refineries in Texas and Louisiana processing our petroleum? Then again, it's the eternal question as to why we ship natural resources out of the country, only to them back as finished goods at a higher price?
12:34 PM on 01/17/2013
Joel I have asked this question many times and always get told it is because the the multinational companies who own/invested in the projects have refineries outside of Canada already - why would they build here - why oh why indeed.
02:58 PM on 01/17/2013
It's also due to excessive environmental regulation and red tape .... how many here support the the Idle No More movement? You get what you ask/vote for.
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Warren Yuill
Jesus Built My Hot-Rod
10:02 AM on 01/17/2013
It all comes down to the cost of production.
Norways oil was cheap to produce thus enabling the government to access private capital to develop the resource.
It was in short, a safe bet with staggering and immediate return.
Not to say it wasn't brilliantly executed.
Just that it was easier.
Aberta's oil is tremendously more expensive and difficult to produce.
Add to that the cost associated with bringing that product to market compared to the Norweigen energy sector and the "bet" for private capital investment becomes less an less sure
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
11:07 AM on 01/17/2013
The Norwegian government was the primary investor, so "finding investors" wasn't the problem, and it took them over 20 years to start making a profit !! 20 Years !! 20 years after that they're now sitting on a 600+ billion dollar reserve. We'd be making, as a Country, 200 billion a year had we chosen a similar approach to governance back in the 70s, granted that also includes similar taxation, so I'm not really concerned with hitting that 200 billion a year, but I do love the thought of a prosperous Canada and not a broke Canada.
11:49 AM on 01/17/2013
200 billion is like 2 trillion in ten years...OH MY who do we kill for this mess ahhhh brian mulroney sold petro canada

thanks again brian old buddy a harpers
12:06 PM on 01/17/2013
What I'd like more than not being broke is more and real sovereignty. When multinational oil companies and foreign governments are allowed to control our natural resources, we lose our sovereignty.

And that, my friends, is what's really at stake.
11:14 AM on 01/17/2013
But Alberta has had years years of relatively cheap oil and natural gas production before the higher cost tar sands have gotten to be a major producer
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Peter Burgess1
11:23 AM on 01/17/2013
The extra production from the tar sands is what the article is comparing.
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DoctorHorror
09:40 AM on 01/17/2013
Thank you Huff for sharing this article. This is exactly what I am saying, but the greedy right wing want to horde the money for themselves and cannot see the long term rewards for all Canadians. King Harper rather turn us into a low wage country then share the wealth.
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Peter Burgess1
10:27 AM on 01/17/2013
You don't have a clue what you're saying.
1. Norway is it's own country and doesn't ahve to send federal tax money or equalization payments to Ottawa.
2. Norway has produced, for many more decades than Alberta, 2-3 times as much oil and 5 times as much natural gas as the entire nation. Small wonder then that they can save more money.

"King Harper rather turn us into a low wage country then share the wealth."

Partisanship turnes you either blind or ignornat. If there was a "King" in this nation it was Chretien who ruled for 12 years and he didn't turn Canada into Norway either, did he?
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DoctorHorror
11:34 AM on 01/17/2013
I have every clue what I am talking about.  Again, I never supported Chretein's way of running Canada either. Harper simply is a worse Chretein, Chretein while Chretein was a tiny but better than Mulroney.  If anythign atleast Chretein didn't bow to Bush's illegal war angering the poor middle east. While King Harper puts Canadians at risk with his policies.  
02:13 PM on 01/17/2013
At least with PM Chretien he clearly had the majority of Canadians behind his majority government. Always well above the 50% of electorate and many seats in the House.

As for PM Harper, he 'rules' like not only he is a King, but he still doesn't seem to realize, nor would he admit, that he clearly does not have the backing of Canadians, not even a majority of the voters. With only 40% of the popular vote, he clearly does not have a mandate to operate in the manner he does, especially with such disdain for the Parliamentary process.
11:48 AM on 01/17/2013
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. " - Winston Churchill
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DoctorHorror
12:05 PM on 01/17/2013
 "Democ­racy is the worst form of gov­ern­ment, except for all the oth­ers" - Winston Churchill, however Canada doesn't have a democracy under right wing reign.
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09:38 AM on 01/17/2013
our inadequacy is embarassing
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Voices in the Wilderness
10:14 AM on 01/17/2013
....but we can always take solace in knowing we are better off than the Americans.
10:26 AM on 01/17/2013
In some aspects yes, in others no.
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11:56 AM on 01/17/2013
voice - do you REALLY believe this? i'm with the survey result of last year which concluded canadians are either the most optimistic or the most deluded nation on earth. after a year back in canada the prospect of canadians as optimistic is dead and buried. but, as the expression attests, ignorance is bliss. do enjoy your hereafter...
11:56 AM on 01/17/2013
our low royalty levels are more embarrassing , all them corproations laughing at YOU while they run off with bags full a cash and you get to work longer ergo 67 pay more taxes etc.....
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