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06:45 PM on 08/19/2011
"...but I'd prefer to have shorter relationships that are monogamous."

That is not monogamy. That is *serial* monogamy. Meaning the partners are in charge of excluding others, from each others sexually. This is the fastest way to habituation and results in a shared, lowest common denominator. "No tonight, dear."

If a series of relationships are inevitable, or you preference, it mustn't necessarily follow that you go it alone. This series too could be shared with a long term partner.
06:23 PM on 08/19/2011
I completely agree with you. I can and have had spirited intellectual, pseudo-bourgeois conversations with various people about it. I've thought about my past relationships, friends relationships and that of human evolutionary progression over time -- and while I feel I can make a well grounded part academic part philosophical argument on why monogamy isn't natural, when I think deep down if I could be even somewhat polyamorous.... I couldn't. And I think it's for the exact points you raised in your final paragraph.
Howard Latchford
05:11 PM on 08/27/2011
In my very long term marriage we have "shared" in each other's relationships. My wife was friends with one of the extramarital ladies. They went horseback riding together. I even took them both to the same movie once and sat between them. One of my wife's special friends is still a mutual friend of both of us after decades. He has spent the night with my wife in our guest bedroom while I slept in another one. This isn't nearly so difficult as you might imagine. Can't you love more than one child the same as the others?
likes all cats more than most people
06:22 PM on 08/19/2011
Can't blame you ma'am, I couldn't have a partner who was banging somebody else either. Not in my nature, no matter what the social programming.
My name means Gift of God.
12:26 AM on 08/20/2011
I remember someone asking Leslie Caron if she could forgive a man for straying ... she said absolutely no. "Telling those same sweet stories to someone else? Never."
Howard Latchford
12:56 AM on 08/20/2011
That seems to be a complaint about lying, not about sex.
05:58 PM on 08/19/2011
Well, first of all, give your date props for being entirely forthcoming. He didn't withhold his views on relationships till much later, he came right out with it, Date One.

That at least appears to be the gesture of someone quite seriously seeking a suitable relationship, rather than a player.

As for how to respond, well, always respond with the truth, whatever it may be. Respond with one's own preferences for relationships.

If your preferences don't coincide with his, no problem, neither of you has mislead the other, neither has really wasted any time, and then you can both sit back and enjoy the rest of the one and only date.

Anybody who reads Dan Savage knows there's multiple ways that real people think about monogamy, exclusivity, commitment, open and closed marriages. There may be *right* ways to approach relationships and also *wrong* ways too, but that doesn't matter.

All that matters is that grown-ups should know what they seek, and know what they need and want, and should be entirely forthcoming about it.
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10:56 PM on 08/19/2011
Well said SimonBao! Couldn't have said it better myself.
loves peanut M&Ms and Whippoorwills
11:09 PM on 08/20/2011
You knocked that one of the park SimonBao. How fortunate your friends and family must feel to have such a positive and mature example.
04:31 PM on 08/19/2011
If everyone involved is honest and open and uses condoms always, every single time, and all parties agree to it, then this is your basic polyamory situation and I have no problem with that. If I wanted to be in a monogamous relationship (which I am in at the moment), I would politely thank the guy for being straight up with me so I knew where I stood and then I would dip right out.

What I have a bigger problem with is cheating and lying, and by cheating, I mean "fooling around and then lying about it." It's one thing when all parties agree to not be monogamous and everyone has the same opportunity to date whomever. It's lying and cheating when you hide it and only you get to get away with gettin' some strange, but your partner doesn't have the same chance. That, and the whole passing on of disease thing. Wrap it up and have at it.
Think, Thank, Thunk
06:12 PM on 08/19/2011
What Dogzilla said. So long as everyone communicates up front, I really have no issue with how consenting adults choose to arrange their relationships.
12:30 AM on 08/20/2011
KUDOS, i agree if everyone was open and honest there would be no cheating and lying but alas there are many who are not secure enough in who they are and why they are lovable and cherished that they cannot handle the fact that humans stray because they need to be close to others. Humans like many animals have a hard time staying monogamous. It's proven. It's why so often marriages break up because one of the parties involved truly just want the freedom to explore, not always knowing it either. They blame their unhappiness on this or that reason, but if they truly look at their motivations, they are in fact looking to explore with others. They get caught up with the grass is greener instead of seeking the greener with their partner by becoming closer through the sharing of themselves with others. Those that do often come back to the partner happier, finding satisfaction and bonding if they practice an open relationship or delve into a swinging lifestyle together. The bond two people create in an open relationship does not just mean they are open to be sexual with others but open in their communications and honest in their desires and in return they share that passion together. Hence drawing them closer and closer. I've seen many couples with an open or polyamorous relationship love and cherish one another FAR more than those who spout monogamy over and over again.
Howard Latchford
01:01 AM on 08/20/2011
Seconds to that, tantricpetals. We have talked the talk and walked the walk. It's wonderful even after all of these years.
05:55 AM on 08/20/2011
when the love gets deep enough, jumping the fence to get to the other grass is never an issue. not to say it's not healthy or ok to look at it.

when the love is not so deep, but there are many other things in the pool keeping you both interested, then adding more play toys, boys, or girls, shouldn't be a problem provided the conditions you described are applied. You still need honesty and communication, otherwise natural human jealousy, anger, and resentment build up and go kaboom.
design & production
04:27 PM on 08/19/2011
nope, don't think i could do it. i am sure that i could never agree to a relationship that assumed one or both of us were going to be sleeping with other people.
My name means Gift of God.
12:28 AM on 08/20/2011
Moi aussi. I've known people who did it. They were split in a matter of months.
design & production
09:08 AM on 08/20/2011
i'm not surprised.
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a.k.a. crowsnest
04:08 PM on 08/19/2011
Are you sure he said "monogamy" and not "monotony"? The English of Québécois is often hard to understand. And of course this miscreant had to be of French descent. American males would never even dare to think of open "polygamy". Too henpecked? Right?
03:03 PM on 08/19/2011
There's no one true way that everyone has to follow in life. Open, ethical monogamy is not morally better or worse than open, ethical non-monogamy (or open, ethical celibacy, for that matter).

Do what you will, as long as you don't lie about it or hide it and you don't try to force your choice on anyone else, whether through legislation, belittling, or ridicule.
11:47 AM on 08/23/2011
"tune in, turn on, drop out" did THAT work out...
02:27 PM on 08/19/2011
So you spend the entire article logically and sensibly deconstructing monogamy as nothing more than a social convention that never seems to work in your life, and then conclude by saying "nevermind, forget it" because jealousy and tradition overpower logic and reason for you?

Huh. Kinda seems like you wasted your time thinking this one out.
lolly caust
It is the empty seats that listen most raptly
10:01 PM on 08/19/2011
i disagree. thinking about things, writing about them, talking to other people about these things that are hard and complicated - these are the ways that we learn who we are, who we can be and who we want to be. it's one of the ways we grow and change. and one bonus of communicating with other people is that sometimes - every once in a while - we can learn from someone else's mistake.
05:48 AM on 08/20/2011
you don't know women very well, do you? lol...

she did that because, deep down inside, she still believes in love. she wants to find true love.