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Deny Deniers their Right to Deny!

Posted: 03/ 9/2012 7:51 am

Let's suppose the world's legitimate scientific institutions, academies, climate scientists, and most of the world's governments are wrong.

Maybe, as some people have argued, they're involved in a massive conspiracy to impose a socialist world order. Maybe the money's just too damn good. It doesn't matter. Let's just imagine that they're wrong, and that the polar ice caps aren't melting and the climate isn't changing. Or, if you prefer, that it's happening, but that it's a natural occurrence -- nothing to do with seven billion people spewing carbon dioxide, and other pollutants into the atmosphere.

Would it still make sense to continue rapidly burn the world's diminishing supply of fossil fuels? Does it mean we shouldn't worry about pollution?

We could pretend global warming isn't happening, or that humans aren't a factor if it is. That would be crazy in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but even if it weren't, there would still be no reason to continue down the road we're on.

Energy is at the heart of modern society's needs, but when the source is finite, it seems foolish to be hell-bent on using it up in a few generations, leaving the problems of depletion and pollution to our children and grandchildren. The longer we delay implementing solutions to our energy challenges the more costly and difficult it will be when we have to face the inevitable.

So, why do so many people insist that we remain stuck with outdated and destructive systems and technologies? Why do so many try to throw roadblocks in the way of progress, and solutions? And what can we do about it?

Many books and studies have addressed the first two questions, including Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway, and Climate Cover-Up, by James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore.

Those books show that huge sums of corporate money have been spent on campaigns to sow doubt, and confusion about issues ranging from the dangers of smoking, to threats to the ozone layer, to climate change. It's all about protecting corporate profits and interests. That doesn't explain why so many ordinary people buy the industry spin, but a number of theories have attempted to shed light on that phenomenon.

What's important though, is for those of us who rely on facts rather than spin to look at solutions. We can all do much more to reduce our environmental footprints, but the problem has grown so much that large-scale efforts are needed, and many of these must come from decision-makers in industry, government, and academia.

However, there appears to be reluctance in some of those circles to act unless the public demands it. And so it's up to all of us to become informed. Then we can hold our leaders to account, and challenge those who refuse to see the big picture.

This public responsibility is especially important in light of the stepped-up efforts to deny the reality of climate change, or the role humans play in it. Cases in point are illustrated by the "denialgate" scandal revealed by the release of Heartland Institute documents and the revelation that Ottawa's Carleton University hired Tom Harris, a PR man for a number of "astroturf" groups with a mechanical engineering background, to teach a course on climate change.

There are many credible sources of information, and they aren't blog sites run by weathermen like Anthony Watts, or industry-funded fake science organizations. One place to start is at Skeptical Science. Click on the tab that says "Arguments" for scientific responses to all the main climate change denier talking points.

Another great rebuttal to the deniers came in a recent article in the New York Review of Books by Yale University economics professor William D. Nordhaus. He said his article, "Why the Global Warming Skeptics Are Wrong", was "primarily designed to correct their misleading description of my own research; but it also is directed more broadly at their attempt to discredit scientists and scientific research on climate change."

The misrepresentation of Nordhaus's research is typical of the Orwellian doublespeak deniers employ, but scientists and researchers are calling them on it.

Armed with credible information, we can challenge those who misrepresent science, and spread confusion. If nothing else, we'll be able to breathe easier!

 
Let's suppose the world's legitimate scientific institutions, academies, climate scientists, and most of the world's governments are wrong. Maybe, as some people have argued, they're involved in a...
Let's suppose the world's legitimate scientific institutions, academies, climate scientists, and most of the world's governments are wrong. Maybe, as some people have argued, they're involved in a...
 
 
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06:38 PM on 03/19/2012
The fact that makes me a sceptic is that the surface of the Moon heats up to over 109 degrees C and up to ~123 degrees C during the lunar day - NASA is one source of this information.

The surface of the Earth is much cooler - always.

The Earth and Moon are subject to the same solar radiation.

So, why is that ? Particularly when we are told - "Without naturally occurring greenhouse gases, Earth's average temperature would be near 0°F (or -18°C) instead of the much warmer 59°F (15°C)." - NASA.

Science tells us that it is the power of the solar radiation ALONE which determines maximum temperature.

So why is Earth cooler ?

During the daytime the oceans and atmosphere actually cool the Earth's surface to levels that are lower than the solar radiation can cause - see Moon during daytime.

As the Earth's surface heating is less than observed on the Moon there is no room for a "greenhouse effect".

A "grenhouse effect" would result in tropical deserts - with little "greenhouse gas" water vapour - being cooler than tropical rainforests where water vapour is nearly saturated all the time.

Of course this is the opposite of what is observed and often by more than 20 - 25 degrees C.
05:56 PM on 03/18/2012
The article claims the facts support the idea that GW is caused by human action and asserts that honest critique must be fact based. All the while ignoring facts. The single energy source that warms the Earth is the Sun, center of our solar system. Studies of ancient ice cores show that average Earth temperatures occurred over a wide range and sustained intervals of time. If those who assert that mankind is responsible, why do they ignore such evidence? After all, there were no
SUVs during past Ice Ages. The deniers have historical evidence to support their skepticism. There is not enough evidence to conclude that massive effort must be undertaken to avoid improbable outcomes. How about an honest debate?
09:42 AM on 03/15/2012
NASA Satellite Debunks Melting Glacier Myth

http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/nasa-satellite-debunks-melting-glacier-myth

“Our results for HMA disagree significantly with previous studies,” the article plainly states. Even though previous GRACE based studies showed significant mass loss, the authors state that those measurements were in error—the outcome of “leakage” of readings from surrounding plains that was included by the Gaussian smoothing functions used. The excessive readings from the plains have been attributed to groundwater movement, not ice loss. They also dismiss any contribution from broad-scale tectonic uplift. In short, they found minimal ice loss from the glaciers of the Himalaya.
09:37 AM on 03/15/2012
Kobashi, T., Kawamura, K., Severinghaus, J.P., Barnola, J.-M., Nakaegawa, T., Vinther, B.M., Johnsen, S.J. and Box, J.E. 2011. High variability of Greenland surface temperature over the past 4000 years estimated from trapped air in an ice core. Geophysical Research Letters 38: 10.1029/2011GL049444.

"there were 72 decades warmer than the present one, in which mean temperatures were 1.0 to 1.5°C warmer."
09:33 AM on 03/15/2012
The long sunspot cycle 23 predicts a significant temperature decrease in cycle 24

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682612000417

Abstract
Relations between the length of a sunspot cycle and the average temperature in the same and the next cycle are calculated for a number of meteorological stations in Norway and in the North Atlantic region. No significant trend is found between the length of a cycle and the average temperature in the same cycle, but a significant negative trend is found between the length of a cycle and the temperature in the next cycle. This provides a tool to predict an average temperature decrease of at least from solar cycle 23 to solar cycle 24 for the stations and areas analyzed. We find for the Norwegian local stations investigated that 25–56% of the temperature increase the last 150 years may be attributed to the Sun. For 3 North Atlantic stations we get 63–72% solar contribution. This points to the Atlantic currents as reinforcing a solar signal.


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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
07:11 PM on 03/12/2012
Republican Senator Says the Bible Tells Him that Scientific Global Warming Theories are Wrong

By Pat Cunningham
State-Journal Register, Springfield IL
March 10, 2012

Sen. James Inhofe, the Oklahoma Republican, is the leading global-warming denier in all of Congress, but his position on the issue is not based on any scientific evidence.

Rather, Inhofe says the Good Book tells him that the theories advanced by the overwhelming majority of climate scientists are simply wrong...

http://tinyurl.com/7fr6z36

North Of 60: "Any belief system that labels it's opposition as 'deniers' is a religion, not science."

I love science denier irony.
12:50 AM on 03/12/2012
The fact is that our air quality is pretty good right now. We're polluting much less than we were during the industrial revolution. In fact most of the pollution in our atmosphere today is coming from China, India and other developing nations. There are real environmental issues that need to be addressed, such as the disaster created by Texaco / Chevron in the Ecuadoran rain forest. Drilling for oil isn't to blame, it's the careless way that they dealt with their waste products, which they just dumped into the ground which has poisoned the aquifer and is killing untold numbers of the indigenous peoples and other species.

Suzuki's claim that the deniers are in the pay of big oil & other corporate interests is a tired old lie. The US Government, the government's of the other developed nations and the UN have spent over $100 Billion subsidizing research to prove that humans are to blame for imagined environmental problems simply so government can have an excuse to regulate our behavior. It's a big lie.

The other big lie is that we're running out of fossil fuels. Last week Obama said that we use 20% of the world's oil when we only have 2% of the world's reserves. That's a lie. The U.S> has the biggest oil reserves of any nation on earth, and when added to our coal and natural gas, we're by far the most energy rich country on earth, with well over 250 years worth of proven reserves.
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chrisd3
Excelsior!
06:59 AM on 03/12/2012
"The fact is that our air quality is pretty good right now. "

This isn't about breathability, it's about CO2.

"Suzuki's claim that the deniers are in the pay of big oil & other corporate interests is a tired old lie"

Obviously not all of them are, but it is a fact that industry has invested a great deal of time and money in spreading doubt and disinformation, using the same tactics (and in some cases the same people) that the tobacco industry used. This is documented. We KNOW this to be true. It is not "a tired old lie" by any stretch of the imagination.
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07:39 AM on 03/12/2012
"Or, if you prefer, that it's happening, but that it's a natural occurrence -- nothing to do with seven billion people spewing carbon dioxide, and other pollutants into the atmosphere.

Would it still make sense to continue rapidly burn the world's diminishing supply of fossil fuels? Does it mean we shouldn't worry about pollution?"

As can be seen, actually the author shifts the argument to the issue of pollution and depletion of fuel resources and away from CO2.
07:42 AM on 03/12/2012
"developed nations and the UN have spent over $100 Billion subsidizing research to prove that humans are to blame for imagined environmental problems simply so government can have an excuse to regulate our behavior. It's a big lie."

That's completely incorrect. If you know how science works internally, it is utterly implausible, sort of like the idea that our government puts mind-altering chemicals in jet exhaust to keep the population docile. Thousands of painstakingly researched peer-reviewed papers cannot be generated by a conspiracy. It's just plain nuts, but it appeals to your ideological predispositions, so you have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
03:56 PM on 03/12/2012
"Thousands of painstakingly researched peer-reviewed papers cannot be generated by a conspiracy."

And yet that's what the ClimateGate emails proves is happening. BTW, not one of those papers empirically links CO2 to changes in the climate.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
12:32 PM on 03/13/2012
Palindrome: "Thousands of painstakingly researched peer-reviewed papers cannot be generated by a conspiracy."

JRW: "And yet that's what the ClimateGate emails proves is happening."

Lol..

Really.

Do you JRW think so-called "Climategate" "proves" the existence of Bigfoot too?

--------------------------

Q. Why do climate science deniers obsess and distort the truth about a fake scandal known as 'Climategate'?

A. Because they can't refute the science, of course.
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MyTake
Release the Hydrogen Economy now!
08:54 PM on 03/11/2012
--If nothing else, we'll be able to breathe easier--

Well, you can certainly breathe easier if you simply PIVOT away from The Carbon Economy and let The Hydrogen Economy emerge.

It is obvious the author has never studied The Rockefeller Syndicate and the now 100 years of the Carbon Economy spawned by that massive wealth accrued by John D. Rockefeller's 95% monopoly on oil refining. No one gets on the Board at EXXON or JPMorgan Chase without David Rockefeller's approval.

Then, in 1913, that monopoly launched The Federal Reserve, The Graduated Income Tax Act and The Foundations Law which not only accelerated The Carbon Economy, but controlled the Government in the process. And that monopoly put Nikola Tesla out-of-business when he proposed his concept for FREE distributable electricity for everyone.

So, The Carbon Economy will not step aside gracefully to allow The Hydrogen Economy to get underway which will alleviate the writer's concerns.

The Oil Cartel will not install Hydrogen Gas Pumps on their service station lots to let this Mercedes Car: http://tinyurl.com/6nxrcq2 , gas up and drive around creating NO POLLUTION.

Nor will the Energy Cartels invest in this POLLUTION FREE Hydrogen Fuel Cell electrical generation plant : http://tinyurl.com/6skgw9h , to provide pollution free power to the grid.

Perhaps the writer should start calling for the emergence of The Hydrogen Economy and he could breath easy, once it is released.
03:58 PM on 03/12/2012
Hydrogen will never happen. Hydrogen isn't a fuel, it's an energy transfer medium. It has to be made either from water or methane. For every 100 joules of energy you put into getting the hydrogen, you will only get 20 back. It's a net energy loser.
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MyTake
Release the Hydrogen Economy now!
10:36 PM on 03/12/2012
So why do you care what the source of hydrogen gas is derived from?

Imagine if LA switched over to hydrogen fuel cell based transportation, residential and business systems tomorrow. Now think what the air quality would be at rush hour traffic -- what, no smog! The savings to healthcare costs alone would be astronomical.

You better get on the phone to all the engineers at Mercedes, Honda, Toyota and KIA to tell them to stop their work on Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric transport because there is a JOULE problem.

And maybe call the engineers at The Freedom Tower and tell them to UNINSTALL those 12 PureCell Model400 fuel cells which will generate 4.8 MW of electricity for that building and tell them it is a NET ENERGY LOSER.

The common tree leaf sees a solar particle splitting the water molecule and there is your FREE Hydrogen fuel, no JOULES involved.
08:52 PM on 03/11/2012
Yes. I have a friend who is a fairly intelligent man. He also has a very, very strong proclivity to see conspiracies of government power every where he looks (though, god knows in our society there IS a lot of collusion and outright 'conspiracy' within different segments of government) and this has resulted, among other things, to have hm discounting the science of climate change. There are many people like him. And he is absolutely impervious to reason- his world outlook is too tied in with his identity. I have finally concluded that it is best to simply not engage in meaningful debate with this 15% (???) or so of society and 'go after' the open-minded and apathetic/unaware middle ground.
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north of 60
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
06:45 PM on 03/11/2012
Yeah right, lets just quash the right to free speech for anyone who disagrees with our beliefs, NOT.

What a pitiful act of desperation. I've lost all respect for this fruit fly geneticist. With 'friends' like this the CAGW movement doesn't need enemies.

Any belief system that labels it's opposition as 'deniers' is a religion, not science.
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Aurel1us
They're eating her!Then they'll eat meeee
07:40 PM on 03/11/2012
Soooo you disagree? Or agree with the points made? You seem to be caught up in the most irrelevant part of the article. What's your position on the relevant portion?
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north of 60
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
11:41 PM on 03/11/2012
Of course the climate is changing, it's always been changing, even before there were humans around to write and talk about the climate changing. Humans don't cause it. Of course the planet is warming. It's been warming since the last ice age, with periods both warmer and colder than today.

The scam is that it's not mostly caused by humans. The belief in accelerated warming that the AGW aficionados cling to has been proven false. The predictions of catastrophic warming didn't happen. They based their 'alarming' warming on temperature data carefully selected from urban 'heat islands'. Temperature data from remote locations does not show the 'alarming' temperature increase the AGW alarmists would like us to believe.

Go right ahead and stop using fossil fuels in your own lifestyle, and reduce your personal carbon footprint as much as you want. That's your right. However you have no right to impose your lifestyle choices on the rest of us.

If you are living an Amish lifestyle then I respect your choices and your opinions carry credibility. However if you are not living an Amish lifestyle then you're just a green hypocrite telling others what's best for them.
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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
11:42 PM on 03/11/2012
Releasing CO2 is the least of the problems that humans are causing. CO2 does not compromise 'a properly clean environment to live in'. There's been a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past and in those times plants and the animals that lived on the plants thrived. Every year in the summertime around here it gets over 400ppm CO2 [we measure it, do you?], the temperature does not increase alarmingly and nobody gets sick or dies, the vegetation is lush and the herbivores love it.

Humans are totally responsible for toxic pollution. Unfortunately polluting is hugely profitable, so the polluters make sure that the AGW scammers are well funded.
Keep the sheeple distracted and they'll never see the truth.

The dirty environment is caused by TOXIC pollution, habitat destruction, groundwater depletion, species elimination, overpopulation... All of these are far greater problems, and they're all 100% caused by humans. No debate required.

So instead of trying to make everyone else conform to your AGW beliefs, focus on mitigating the serious problems humans are irrefutably causing, starting with your own life and the neighborhood and local community around you. Positive change does not come from government regulations, accords, or laws; it comes from the ground up starting with YOU.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
05:17 PM on 03/12/2012
"CAGW" = denier-speak for "catastrophic" AGW.*

"CAGW" is not a scientific term.

Define in a scientifically-testable manner you mean by "catastrophic" in this context - thank you.
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Bogstomper2
Secular conservative
05:02 PM on 03/11/2012
It's clear that the science denier community is getting tired of being labeled deniers, but they can't stop denying. The most important thing they deny is that there are any consequences to our actions, such as burning fossil fuels. Even though American science denial is part of what calls itself a conservative movement, they reject one of the fundamental tenets of conservatism.

And they've become so boring. I've been dealing with science denial nonsense since 1982 when I first ran into creationism, and I see the deniers using the same deceitful tricks today. Quote mining, cherry picking data, flat-out lies, and a false representation of science, with conspiracy theory to fill in the gaps. Nothing's really changed in the denier playbook.

That's why I don't listen to them any more. All I hear from them is this desperate demand for people like me to listen to their talking points just one more time, even though those talking points are known to be rubbish.

We need to upgrade our power supplies so that we quit changing the composition of the atmosphere. And America should be leading this effort, not dragging our feet to satisfy narrow business, religious, and ideological interests.
07:46 PM on 03/11/2012
If you listened then you might learn something. For instance, you say,

"The most important thing they deny is that there are any consequences to our actions, such as burning fossil fuels."

This is ridiculous. Everyone knows that all the advanced societies with high living standards have embraced the low cost energy of fossil fuels. The consequences have been undeniably good for societies that were able to adopt these improvements. Agrarian developing nations with no mechanized farming and no electric power infrastructure still suffer from a lack of clean water and more than a billion people in countries like this are living in abject poverty. Nobody can deny this.

Only a twisted mind would deny nations like China the use of their fossil fuels and their RIGHT to prosperity in order to prevent a hypothetical rise in global temperatures by 1 degree by the end of this century.

The Khmer Rouge embraced a totally agrarian (sustainable) society. Ideals which their founder, Pol Pot, learned at the French Sorbonne and which came from the philosophies of Jean Jacques Rouseau and other enlightened thinkers. Is that what you seek? Because that is the realistic alternative to our current dependence on fossil fuels.

To deny the benefits of burning of fossil fuels to billions is far worse than to to deny that burning more fossil fuel may ultimately have a small warming effect on our climate, especially when these same folks deny that a warmer climate might actually be beneficial!
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ILoveFiction
That's unbelievable!
08:38 PM on 03/11/2012
Say, are you a cotton farmer on Texas?
03:52 PM on 03/12/2012
Man, talk about changing the subject. Most of Bogstomper's post was about the intellectual vacuity and flat-out mendaciousness of the denialist movement. You didn't say a peep about that, but pretty soon you're suggesting he's like the Khmer Rouge.

"a warmer climate might actually be beneficial!" Not bloodly likely, though, especially with the sea level changes, ocean acidification, and changing rainfall patterns disrupting agriculture and the built infrastructure.
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GhostOfFDR
Your micro-bio is too brilliant to be approved
08:43 PM on 03/13/2012
The conservative movement has gone from believing that change is bad to believing that change is impossible. Therefore anyone who believes things are changing can safely be ignored.
02:33 PM on 03/11/2012
Does humanity have problems? Yes. Is pollution a problem? Yes, (especially in China and third world countries, we cleaned up our act decades ago). Is peak oil a serious threat? Very likely indeed. Does that mean we spend billions, or even possibly trillions on "fixing" the climate the answer? Emphatically NO. Wasting money on stupid schemes will only make our real problems worse. Oh, and one last note, the climate science community gets BILLIONS every year, some 80 billion in the last 20 years from the US government alone, compared to the paltry few millions skeptics get.

How much money would the Suzuki foundation lose in donations should AGW be shown to be wrong?
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ILoveFiction
That's unbelievable!
04:32 PM on 03/11/2012
I don't know.

Show us AGW is wrong and we'll find out!
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north of 60
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
06:47 PM on 03/11/2012
You've been shown the fallacy of your belief, however you know how you feel and don't want your preconceived notions challenged by facts.

We can lead people to knowledge, but we can't make them think.
08:58 PM on 03/11/2012
Science doesn't work that way. It's not my, nor any skeptics, responsibility to show a negative. Science can't do that. It is up to the people providing the positive evidence, the one's proposing the theory, to provide physical evidence of their position. Climate scientists have been using climate models to provide that "evidence", accept climate models are NOT evidence, they are an extension of what they think their theory says. Not one of their climate models of how much CO2 influence temperature has come true. The average temperature has NOT responded as their models claim. New stuff is being found out all the time, including how little the climate sensitivity is to CO2 increases, and they have to change their models. What climate scientists need to do is emperically match changes, which have never happened before, to CO2 increases.

Thus climate scientists have NOT verified their theory with any emperical evidence. Suzuki as a scientist should know this.
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Dallas Dunlap
10:13 PM on 03/11/2012
JRWakefield - If building roads, or universities, or aircraft carriers produce economic activity and raise GDP, why does not investing in an alternative energy infrastructure do the same thing?
Why do you think that one type of infrastructure spending will not produce the same multiplier effect as any other?
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07:45 AM on 03/12/2012
He never made the claim you ascribe to him.
08:52 AM on 03/12/2012
Actually I will make that claim. Alternatives to oil will never work for a number of reasons. 1) alternatives do not have the energy density oil does. 2) alternatives do not have the ability to produce the wide array of products as oil does. 3) the ERoEI on alternatives is much lower or negative relative to oil. 4) oil never needed the gross government subsities alternatives require. This means that more jobs are lost in the general ecomomy than are produced in the alternatives. Have a look at the EU, it is in gross disarray and abandoning alternatives because it is throwing people into energy poverty.
02:32 PM on 03/11/2012
So, because science MUST have healthily skepticism, one should NEVER be given a negative moniker just because they reject a theory that many climate scientists accept. One must remember that many once held to the heart theories have been over turned in history, the most famous being fixed continents over turned because of plate tectonics. Medicine is loaded with theories that were once main stream only to be later rejected, and only died once they last supporter of the old theory dies off.

Unless climate science can show that some how it is fundamentally different from all other sciences can Suzuki make claim that "the science is settled." He should know better. See Part 2:

Now, he claims that there is ample evidence. Yes indeed there is ample evidence the climate changes, but, and this is a huge but, is anything happening now beyond normal variation? And by normal variation one cannot look at only the last 30 or even 100 years, but THOUSANDS of years. When one does that the answer is an emphatic NO! Not one thing happening in the climate or weather today has NEVER happened before. Suzuki should be familiar with the term Discriminatory Evidence. So what physical evidence of changes today can ONLY be explained as emissions of CO2 being the cause? Take a guess at how many papers published show that. NONE!! Not one paper in the scientific literature has empirically linked CO2 to changes in the climate. Computer models are NOT evidence.
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chrisd3
Excelsior!
07:13 PM on 03/11/2012
"one should NEVER be given a negative moniker just because they reject a theory that many climate scientists accept"

That is not why they get the moniker. They get the moniker for denying facts, misrepreestning science, and misleading people--in essence, for lying.
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08:47 PM on 03/11/2012
Yeah man. They are denying deniers who deny that they are deniers. And they take things out of context and then they deny that too. It just goes on and on. Lol!
09:01 PM on 03/11/2012
What facts? Did you not read my post? NO ONE disputes the facts, that is the empirical observations that the climate changes. We CHALLENGE the notion that those changes are because of our CO2. Now, if you have any of this evidence that links CO2 to changes in the climate, please post them, and provide references to back up your claim.
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Dallas Dunlap
10:19 PM on 03/11/2012
JRWakefield - The current warming of the earth has several possible causes. Scientists have systematically examined these possible causes and ruled all but CO2 based AGW. It's math.
The fact that something similar may have happened before isn't relevant. What is important is what is happening now.
I don't know what you consider to be evidence but a situation in which CO2 is rising and global temp. is rising and there is a strong correlation between them is one piece of evidence. And there is theory that CO2 leads to the temperature rise, so causality is covered.
If you look at the evidence and the math, the case is pretty ironclad.
08:47 AM on 03/12/2012
Since this "warming" has happened in the past, through natural cycles, and it is happening now, what makes this so indicative to CO2 as the cause? Correlation is not evidence of causation. Again, I suggest you look through the science literature, NOT ONE PAPER links CO2 to ANY changes in the climate. Besides, CO2 increased the last 15 years with no change in temps. You do realize that what is changing the average temp is winters are becoming less cold. Summers in Canada have gotten COOLER, the number of heatwave days has been dropping since the 1930's. And this is bad how? I urge you to look at the trends we have measured over the last 100 years, there is NO overall trends that are worse today than in the past.
02:31 PM on 03/11/2012
Suzuki has lost all principles of science with this anti-human, anti-science diatribe. First let's be clear about what AGW actually is. In science we measure things, those are events, such as the changes measured in the climate in the few 100 years of precise machines. (Relying on proxy data doesn't count in climate science because it is not fine enough to see where the trends actually are occurring). NO ONE denies the climate changes. The fact that Canada was once covered with 2 kilometres of ice shows change happens. However, the CAUSE of the changes we see are where theory comes into play. Theory is used to explain the reason why changes occur. Logic dictates that you cannot deny theories, only accept or reject them. So those of us who reject the theory that human emissions of CO2 are the root cause of the changes in the climate are emphatically NOT DENIERS. Science would cease to do what it does if every scientist who rejected a theory was labelled a denier and prevented from publishing. When Cold Fusion was suggested were every other scientist a denier by default? No. They simply rejected the theory, they rejected that the cause of what was measured was due to cold fusion. See Part 2:
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Dallas Dunlap
10:29 PM on 03/11/2012
JRWakefield: Who is prevented from publishing? Lindzen cranks out a paper now and then. Spencer recently published a paper. Even ridiculous papers get published. ( A certain McLean, deFreitas, Carter paper comes to mind.) In fact, if a scientist can produce a reasonable and well researched paper, she can probably get it published eventually.
You comparison to cold fusion is inapt. The claims of Pons and Fleischman weren't rejected on the basis of ideology or economics. They were rejected because other scientists could not replicate their work. In the case of climate science, numerous scientists have replicated the work of the pioneers of the field. The opposition to climate science is ideological in nature and is motivated by right wing political and economic beliefs.
08:58 AM on 03/12/2012
ROTHL!!! Replicated their work??? Yeah, IN COMPUTER PROGRAMS!!! That is NOT evidence. To replicate the climate you would have to rewind time, remove humans from the planet, and let the last 100 years run again and compare that test to our last 100 years. That's what REPLICATION means in science, reproducing the experiments. Computer models are NOT experiments, they are loose approximations on what they THINK the climate is doing. They are ALWAYS wrong, can't predict even three days into the future, let alone 20 or 100 years. So please, stop pretending climate science is so clean cut everything known.
12:01 PM on 03/11/2012
The problem with David Suzuki's logic is that "Deny the Deniers Right to Deny!" can be applied to both sides of the man-made global warming debate.

For example, many of the IPCC claims have been shown to be false or grossly exaggerated. For example, the denial of the very real and global "medieval warm period" which informs us that our modern warm period is actually not unprecedented at all. For example, the "hide the decline" trick perpetrated by key climate scientists which helped hide the fact that tree ring results (which created the alarming IPCC Hockey Stick) are not at all reliable after 1960 (a fact that would informs us that perhaps tree ring data is not a suitable temperature proxy that may be relied upon). The Himalayas melting by 2035 (another inaccurate alarming IPCC claim) or the recent denial by alarmists that global temperatures have not been increasing for the past 17 years (information that informs us that natural factors may be of greater significance to temperature than we have incorrectly attributed entirely to man-made CO2). Sea levels are not rising alarmingly. Hurricanes are not getting worse.

My point is that there are deniers on both sides. Those who deny CO2 may have some miniscule effect on global temperature (physics says is should if all else is equal) and those alarmists who deny all the mounting evidence that man-made CO2 warming is small and probably negligible.

Shame on David Suzuki for proposing to shut down debate.
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ILoveFiction
That's unbelievable!
12:59 PM on 03/11/2012
Mounting evidence.

Is it piling up somewhere while the crew is cleaning out the stalls?

Just precisely what kind of pile are you referring to?
03:25 PM on 03/11/2012
Precisely the things I mention in my post above. The mounting evidence that shows that all of the alarmist predictions are simply NOT coming true. Go check for yourself for statements by James Hansen (NASA) in 1986 - his dire predictions are simply NOT happening.

Nobody really questions that is has been warmer recently compared to 100 years ago. They used to hold frost fairs on the river Thames in London between the 15th and 19th centuries (little ice age as it is sometimes called). In the past century the river has not frozen over. This is what we observe. However, the doomsday predictions that were based on the claim that man-made CO2 emissions are entirely responsible for recent warming are looking less and less credible: observations show that it has stopped getting warmer even though CO2 keeps rising. This evidence suggests that other natural factors may be of greater importance than we thought. The doomsayers jumped the gun and made a mountain out of a mole hill; CO2 may have some small effect but thankfully it is not nearly as significant as scientists once thought.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GhostOfFDR
Your micro-bio is too brilliant to be approved
09:07 PM on 03/13/2012
The medieval warm period was nothing like the current warming. The current warming is progressing at a much greater rate and with much higher amplitude.

Typical denialist trick. Since the world is complicated, find some little known fact, claim it disproves global warming even though it doesn't. But what you're really doing is trying to claim a violin can't make noise because you can make noise by banging rocks together.

The "knowledge deficient" might believe you. And that's all you're really going for. Trying to get enough doubt that you can make more money by continuing to wreck the planet.