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Church and State, It's About Time You Separated

Posted: 02/04/2013 9:52 am

Some time ago, Prime Minister Stephen Harper observed that separation of church and state is an American constitutional concept and does not apply to the Canadian constitution. He went on to say that separation of church and state in Canada has meant, traditionally, that the government will not interfere with religion. The sad thing is that he is right.

There are no clauses in the Constitution Act of 1867 (the BNA Act to those born before 1982) that separate church and state. Indeed, our Head of State, the Monarchy, is also the Head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith.

Since that Monarchy is directly involved with the Church of England and, by extension, the Anglican Church of Canada, the best the Crown can do is to tolerate all other churches (and atheism) in Canada. Enter the tradition of non-interference with religion.

We non-believers have to rely on Supreme Court of Canada comments, notably in court decisions regarding the Lord's Day Act in New Brunswick (Big M Drugs vs. the Crown et al), for protection from government interference. We have the right to freedom from religion, based on that and the fact that some official bodies, notably the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal (formerly Commission), have taken action to remove enforced religion from the workplace.

The default condition in Canada, then, is that religion is a part of normal government affairs. The tradition of non-interference in religious affairs by government does not necessarily work the other way. Religions have a de facto mandate to lobby the government although their charitable status is in some danger if they lobby too overtly about specific legislation.

If we non-believers are to influence government or at least have a voice, we have to use our right to freedom from religion to clear Canadian laws and symbols of favoritism toward religion.

Some progress has been made, but mostly as tolerance for religions other than Christianity: non-believers are merely collateral beneficiaries.

Non-religious affirmations, such as the one Michaële Jean took when she became Governor-General can replace the oaths of offices for all positions from municipal councillor to governor general. These affirmations are there to accommodate pressures from minority religions in a multicultural society.

In 1965, we replaced the Red Ensign with the Maple Leaf, thus removing religious symbols from our national flag. Replacing the Red Ensign was an attempt to appease Québec by removing the English Union Jack from our flag. Few of the politicians who did that thought anything about the fact that the Union Jack is a composite of the crosses of St. George, St. David, and St. Andrew.

Favoritism toward religion is most blatant in the charities categories in the Income Tax Act. Here, religion has its own category and the tone of it is different from all the other categories since it does not require any demonstration of community service. Yes, it assumes that advancement of religion is a community service . . . and the point is?

That religious category is: Advancement of religion -- "To advance religion in the charitable sense means to preach and advance the spiritual teachings of a religious faith and to maintain the doctrines and spiritual observances on which those teachings are based."

Examples of its practice are: "establishing and maintaining buildings for religious worship and other religious use, organizing and providing religious instruction, carrying out pastoral and missionary work."

Other provisions in the Advancement of Religion category include the right to have building funds, a right that is not available under the charitable status allowed for Humanist organizations. Religious clergy can deduct residence expenses from their income tax; our officiants cannot.

Removal of these provisions is highly unlikely, so Secular Connexion Séculaire is working on adding a category for Humanist groups that will have similar conditions. This should be defined in a way that permits the advancement of socially positive philosophy.

Since we do not enjoy a succinct statement separating church and state, like the First Amendment of the American constitution, non-believers will have to rely on our system of precedents and on Canadian jurisprudence to make progress. This will be a long and tedious struggle requiring considerable effort just to get politicians' attention -- and persistent, consistent pressure on them to accommodate our philosophy.

Loading Slideshow...
  • The Christmas card for Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper features his family, daughter Rachel, son Ben and wife Laureen.

  • The inside of the Prime Minister's Christmas card shows the leader with his wife Laureen and their children Ben and Rachel.

  • The Christmas card for NDP leader Tom Mulcair features a Paul Couvrette photo of the Parliament buildings in Ottawa.

  • The inside of the Christmas card for NDP leader Tom Mulcair features an image of the leader and his wife Catherine taken by Joshua Berson.

  • The Christmas card for interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae features a J. Christopher Lawson portrait of the leader and his wife Arlene Perly Rae.

  • The inside of Liberal leader Bob Rae's Christmas card features a message from the leader and his wife Arlene Perly Rae.

  • The Christmas card for the Governor General shows an image of Gov. Gen. David Johnston riding a dogsled with his wife Sharon on the grounds of Rideau Hall.

 

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Some time ago, Prime Minister Stephen Harper observed that separation of church and state is an American constitutional concept and does not apply to the Canadian constitution. He went on to say that ...
Some time ago, Prime Minister Stephen Harper observed that separation of church and state is an American constitutional concept and does not apply to the Canadian constitution. He went on to say that ...
 
 
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03:01 PM on 02/05/2013
The biggest problem I've seen with "religious freedoms" in Canada is they are very lopsided. Christians are all for government funded private catholic schools and are up in arms at the idea of removing the funding, but if the idea of a government funded Muslim public school is brought up they'll be against that.

I, for one, as a devout Catholic, think Church and State should never have been mixed and need to be far more separated than they are now. The combination of Church and State has been the leading cause of war after war, conflict after conflict and continued persecution for centuries.
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jamster88
08:13 AM on 02/05/2013
"Freedom is a gift from God."

"That is how we will preserve our planet, commanded to our care by God."

"I have sworn before you today ... was an oath to God and country"

"Thank you, God Bless you, and may He forever bless these United States of America."

- Barack Obama, 2nd inauguration.
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DoctorHorror
12:42 PM on 02/07/2013
Well that explains it, why we really don't have freedom! ;)
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AcunningDisguise
magnus gigas caput
09:15 PM on 02/07/2013
"commanded to our care by God." If so then she is p1ssed.
02:44 AM on 02/05/2013
The Constitution Act contains what is referred to as the "notwithstanding clause" which, essnetially, gives the governement the ability to ignore any part of the constitution it deems convenient so long as it revisits the decision every now and again.
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jamster88
08:04 AM on 02/05/2013
Except that it has never been invoked under the premises of the government participating in anything religious whatsoever - therefor the point is mute.
03:59 PM on 02/05/2013
I think you mean "moot". Our constitution is self-defeating, how can this be irrelevant? The Canadian constitution is not worth the paper it was written on.
02:41 AM on 02/05/2013
The Canadian constitution absolutely sucks! It guarantees Canadians nothing.
02:16 PM on 02/04/2013
don t we already have separation of church and state??perhaps the only place that the religions have an upper hand is in the fact they are exempt of taxes. no religion can override the laws. the laws are the same for all individuals,no?
06:00 PM on 02/04/2013
The Catholic Church enjoys limited diplomatic immunity. So NO, the laws are not equal.

Religion is poison.
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jamster88
08:06 AM on 02/05/2013
FALSE. The Catholic Church does not have 'diplomatic immunity' THAT IS A LIE. The Vatican - A STATE - has diplomatic immunity.

Once again the Atheist Radicalism spew lies and hate.
06:57 PM on 02/04/2013
i presume if catholics have immunity it applies to other religious leaders. btw i ve been reading a lot about many things and by the gist of it most agendas are started by religious groups, if not one by the other.and anything in extreme is poison.even atheism.
01:29 PM on 02/04/2013
Part 4 - Questions for Doug Thomas, President, Humanist Rights Advocacy Group.
Did your 'group' ever advocated
1 - the separation of synagogue and state ?
2 - the separation of freemasonic lodge and state ?
How come the only beneficiary of your attention is the 'church', read the Catholic Church ? Can those who think for themselves see your picking on the Catholic Church as bigotry ?
How come when 'synagogue' argued before the Supreme Court of Canada that preborn children should have no status as human beings, that they are no independent human lives but only parts of women's bodies like teeth or nails, the 'Humanists' agreed with the jewish religion and kept quiet ever since about this minority religion making its beliefs a part of the law code of the land ? This is comical, you Humanists are supposed to believe in science. The laws of science show that an embryo is a unique and distinct from its mother human life. Are you not capable of logical thinking or you have an anti-christian agenda ?
How come you keep quiet about the freemasons making their occult beliefs be the underlying matrix of canadian life and passing laws concordant to their gnostic beliefs ? A christian beliefs must not interfere with the state and the dark gnostic beliefs preserved by rabbis for over 2000 years can interfere ? Are you quiet because the Humanism is a freemasonic project to sell jewish-gnostic utopia of paradise on Earth ?
05:59 PM on 02/04/2013
I used the term church (with the small c protocol in mind) to mean all religious organizations since they are all protected by the concept. Perhaps a footnote to that effect of the use of the term religion in place of church–although it would not reflect common English usage– would be more appropriate because that is what I meant.

I am not sure how important Freemasonry was in the formation of the Canadian constitution although it was certainly a common movement in Upper Canada in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.

I have a pro-democracy agenda and I can think of no historic cases of democracies that were dominated by any ideology–theist or atheist–so to achieve a level playing field (sorry another idiom) we all need to agree that government is non-ideological. If that can be achieved, then people of all philosophies can exist without being subjected to either tyranny or tolerance.

I am sorry you are so upset with the concept that people can live good, ethical lives without believing in supernatural beings, but we can and do–usually alongside any number of religious colleagues and neighbours.
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Diane Weber Bederman
11:56 AM on 02/04/2013
What is the definition of a "socially positive philosophy"?

You wrote that "non-believers are collateral beneficiaries." So true. Humanists and secularists are the beneficiaries of religion. The teachings of humanism were inherited from religion; from lessonsof the Hebrew Bible that later were spread throughout the world by Christianity.
Ethical -monotheism gave us free-will-we were no longer under the “ control of capricious gods”, flitting in and out one's life, wreaking havoc.
The belief that was given to us is that all humans have intrinsic value, we are equal, and we have not only the right to make choices, but the obligation. Ethical monotheism taught that one is not a victim of circumstance, we have control, that our place in life is not pre-determined by birth. The most important teaching is care for the stranger, the other, making it possible to move from tribal states to nation states.
The Ten Commandments were also revolutionary. Sacrifice of children, tribal murder based on shame/honour, and incest were commonplace. Countries that are founded on ethical monotheism have laws against these practices.
There is a tendency to confuse the dogma, creed and beliefs of a religion-Christianity and Judaism- with its foundational documents in the Hebrew Bible.
Western culture is built on ethical monotheism. Before you demean religion, think about the laws and freedoms it brought-especially our court system, justice system, laws regarding business, and social justice and prophetic law. DWB
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10:52 PM on 02/04/2013
You say "The Ten Commandments were also revolutionary. Sacrifice of children, tribal murder based on shame/honour, and incest were commonplace. Countries that are founded on ethical monotheism have laws against these practices."

But still no commandment against Slavery! Why not? I am still waiting for him to correct his huge omission, could you please remind him?
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Diane Weber Bederman
12:57 PM on 02/05/2013
Slavery, as practiced in the United States has nothing in common with the slavery in Biblical times. There are laws regarding the care of "slaves" in the Bible. Read them and you will see how different the concept of slavery. Slavery was common then-but it was far worse in the pagan world.
I cannot understand how anyone who says they believe in God can believe in slavery. I think, too the problem is that the meaning behind the word changed over time. From pagan to Biblical to America.
There is nothing in the Bible that condones the present day understanding of slavery.
The commandment that says" I am the Lord your god who took you our of Egypt, out of slavery-speaks to God's views on slavery."
Don't let anyone tell you that the God of the Hebrew Bible ever condoned slavery-ever!
DWB
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jimtodd
Unrepentant child of '60s
08:55 AM on 02/04/2013
Separation of church and state is an American concept, but nowhere near an American reality. The latest glaring example was Obama's oath of office, when the Chief Justice, after reading the required oath, then posed as a question, "so help you god?" These words are not part of the oath, and it was improper, not to mention unconstitutional, for the Chief Justice to amend the oath and in effect require a declaration of faith by a public official.
10:39 AM on 02/04/2013
Obama's answer to that should have been: "Yeah, whatever".
11:24 AM on 02/04/2013
The American experience is a great demonstration of the need for active participation in the constitutional affairs of state in the way that the Freedom From Religion Foundation does. The Canadian Constitution at least turns the question over to debate and we can effect practical changes to improve the situation (move toward fairness) without engaging in constitutional amendments.
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04:32 AM on 02/04/2013
Part 1- Separation of 'church and state' ?
But the'church and state' have been separated for many, many years. It is not 'church' that is married to the state, it is the religion of the ancient Gnosis preserved and protected in and disseminated from the lodges of the Freemasonry. This Gnosis, and very particularly its fast-food McGnosis version called the 'secular humanism' is ruling our land from sea so sea. The occult Gnosis/secular humanism teaches that Man does not live by the word of God, Man lives by the word and wisdom of the liberator who told Eve in the Garden of Eden to eat the fruit from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil so that he/she be like God. The secular humanism preaches the self -deification of Man, preaches that Man on his own decides what is good and what is evil and what is true and what is false. It preaches that to be free Man must reject the old religious 'dogmas' and turn the religious value system upside down. The Church teaches that marriage is a sacramental act and theand the Gnosis/secular humanism brought us divorce on demand
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Torontosaurous
06:50 AM on 02/04/2013
Are you sure you are from this century?We are trying desperately to shake this yolk of mythology and here you go trying to make it sound a little less ridiculous.Sorry,,I don't think it's working.Equating all who don't follow as minions of the devil is an idea who's time has long gone.Welcome to the twenty first century.Here,people study science so as not to be fooled into accepting any nonsense that has come in the past or will come in the future.Deduction,reason,logic,experimentation,etc.are tools that easily dismantle the dogmas of ancient beliefs and simple dualistic thinking.Why is the church in free fall? Because you cant expect people from the modern world to accept outdated notions about the nature of reality.
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Diane Weber Bederman
07:47 PM on 02/05/2013
I don't know when the myth that people of religion are against science started. I have a background in science, the psycho-social sciences, as well as theology but my religious studies included philosophy. I keep up to date on medical research like epigenetics. Religion is not meant to answer the questions of science. But religion can add deeper meaning to the question of existence. Diane Weber Bederman
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Torontosaurous
06:58 AM on 02/04/2013
Since when does secular humanism rule the land? Athiests are still having to tolerate the dominant religions of their day.When secular humanism is the dominant discourse ,you will see big changes in how the religious people are given power.The first to go is your tax exempt status.Once that is removed,most churches will fold and become condos for stylish thirty something's.
10:58 AM on 02/06/2013
You little creature of God, how can there be any enquiry and reflection and comments between people, between you and me, on these pages upon the fundamental questions of human existence [ because the talk is about the religion] and of workings of the human society when :
A. You are ignorant of basic facts of the history of mankind [but you naively think that you are knowledgeable. P.S. The classical and rigorous education with its corresponding training for an independent thinking was destroyed after the Second World War]
B. This website censors the posts and also deletes the posts upon a complaint from those whose minds are in the Orwellian world of the political correctness. My posts have been rubbed out, I am not able to present some relevant facts so you win a debate. But the rubbing out is not convincing,... or maybe is, in the world you want.
Those like you are in power and want to hear only what their manipulated and by the circular reasoning operating mind wants to hear. Enjoy the world that you and your like are building, enjoy living in the 'fools paradise' of the coming secular-humanist utopia of paradise on Earth as planned by the religious sect of Gnosis. The future will be terrible, 100 million murdered by the atheists-humanists in the Soviet Russia/Soviet Union was just the beginning. You, and your deluded like, enjoy the coming future.
04:28 AM on 02/04/2013
Not only should church and state be seperated but religious schools should be outlawed. It is ridiculous to allow children to be sent to schools which teach that the religion of the school is the only true religion and everyone else is wrong. this leads to hate and discrimination.
06:03 AM on 02/04/2013
Good to know you are fully versed on what you are talking about.
07:59 AM on 02/04/2013
I would not go so far as to outlaw religious schools but certainly it is far past time for Ontario to stop public funding of the Catholic school system. No other religious group gets the same distinction as the Ontario Catholic system.
08:42 AM on 02/04/2013
Silly the question of having seperate schools financed through taes goes back to the BNA. It went to the Supreme Court and was accepted as part of the initial agreement so we are stuck with it. What is more aggravating is a non catholic family cannot use the seperate school system unless they lie and say they are RC or they pay fees. They cannot transfer their taxes to the seperate school even though an RC family may transfer their taxes to the public school system and send their kids there.
11:37 AM on 02/04/2013
Just as a matter of clarification, the Separate School issue is a provincial one and is a result of clause 93 of the Constitution Act of 1867 that includes a clause that enables provinces that had funding for minority religious schools in place prior to 1867. In Ontario (Canada West before 1867) this was the Scott Act that gave funding to the Catholic system to balance the funding given to the Church of England Schools that had become the public schools. That act and Separate School funding have no place in a modern Canada where all other provinces that had public funding for religious schools (Newfoundland and Labrador, Québec) have stopped the practice.