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Peter Worthington

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Why it Was Right to Shoot Down the Long Gun Registry

Posted: 05/16/2012 10:40 am

The squabble over the federal government legislating an end to long gun registry shows few signs of dying down.

Apparently the government, through Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, doesn't even want people who buy firearms to have their names registered by the store, or the serial numbers of rifles recorded.

OPP Supt. Chris Wyatt has been quoted saying, in effect, that if the federal government doesn't want records of gun owners kept, the government should say so specifically in legislation. Otherwise, why shouldn't stores that sell guns keep a record of who purchases them?

Why the feds are bellyaching over this, is beyond reason.

So what if a gun store records the identity of someone purchasing a rifle?

By objecting to, or accusing the province of instigating a "back-door" gun registry to foil the cancellation of a national registry, is just plain silly.

Remember, the long gun registry was abandoned because its costs stretched into billions of dollars (from an original estimate of $2 million), and probably as many people didn't declare their guns, as those who registered them.

It was a foolish law from the start, in that it made criminals out of farmers and people in rural areas who didn't trust government assurances, or simply couldn't be bothered to register their rifles and shotguns.

In 2011 there were some 7.8 millions guns registered in Canada. The National Firearms Association estimates there were up to 21 million guns in Canada in 1993, owned by roughly six million Canadians. What does that tell you? It tells you the unenforceable law was making a lot of decent Canadians into criminals.

End of argument as to why the registry was -- and deserved to be -- scrapped.

And the registry did little to curb crimes committed with guns. Most criminals use hand guns, and there's always been a requirement to register these. Again, when guns are used in crimes, they are usually not registered.

By abandoning long gun registry, the federal government is saving the taxpayer considerable billions. If senior provincial police officers and local politicians feel safer if store owners record the identities of those who buy guns, so what? It'll cost nothing, back door or no back door.

More significantly, why should individuals of the gun-buying public care if they are recorded as gun owners? If you don't intend to use it for a crime, why is anonymity important?

We register when we buy automobiles, or get a driver's license. What's the difference with a gun if you don't intend to shoot someone or rob a bank?

Instigating the gun registry in the first place created a prejudice that lingers today. There's something sinister about wanting to own a gun -- or even owning one.

When I was a kid in Barrie, I bought a .22 calibre rifle at Robinson's hardware store (where I once had a summer job). No one paid heed when Jim Coutts and I would carry our .22s through downtown Barrie on our way to shoot crows and groundhogs in local fields. These days, a toy gun is liable to provoke a swat team reaction.

People bristle at the idea of being listed as a gun owner -- as if they'll be nabbed in a midnight raid. It's a bit like people who oppose babies being fingerprinted, in case future identification is needed. Unless the baby is likely to become a criminal, why not have everyone's fingerprints recorded? It might be invaluable for tracing lost children.

Anyway, the gun registry is no more -- and too costly to ever be re-imposed.

 
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The squabble over the federal government legislating an end to long gun registry shows few signs of dying down. Apparently the government, through Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, doesn'...
The squabble over the federal government legislating an end to long gun registry shows few signs of dying down. Apparently the government, through Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, doesn'...
 
 
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02:40 PM on 05/17/2012
Can't say I understand your objection to people who don't follow a law being labelled as criminals, Pete.
11:55 AM on 05/17/2012
The biggest problem of having gun stores keeping records of who buys what firearm, complete with addresses, etc., is that it presents a real and very serious threat to everyone. In order to acquire a shopping list for criminals, etc., all one has to do is make a quick break and enter of a sporting goods shop, steal that book, and sell it to the highest bidder. All that should be recorded is the firearm serial number and the persons Possession and Aquisition License number. No names. that way, it covers all bases for public safety. If the book is stolen the only information the thief has is a registration number and a PAL number.
11:52 AM on 05/17/2012
There is no way that any computer database costs billions of dollars to build and maintain. If this were the case then most companies would go out of business. This is a totally trumped up argument for why not to have a registry. Conservatives wanted to scrap this registry because they for the most part are in lock step with Republicans in the USA. Republicans defend the right to bear arms so that they can be used to protect themselves from their own government. They are paranoid. This database should not be destroyed. It does not belong to the Conservative government. It belongs to the Canadian people. One day when the Conservatives are finally out of power, the NDP/Libs should be able to use the registry for normal law enforcement processing. If there was a reason to have the registry in the first place, that reason should never go away. Never delete data or databases. Mark the data as offline, but never delete it. This is the rub... the conservatives say the registry is too expensive... well what about the F35's they want to purchase? Give us a break!
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Old Glenridge
in the Great White North
02:10 PM on 05/17/2012
I am in favour of the Registry, I can confirm they blew a couple billion a decade ago on it.
It was a scandal at the time.
02:32 PM on 05/17/2012
I'm glad your in favour of keeping the registry. If it costs billions when it was first created then people should be held accountable as they overpaid. It does not take rocket science nor billions to build a database. A few million does not equal a couple of billion. It is irrational for the Conservatives to not want all gun purchasers names and contact info docummented in the event that their weapons are subsequently involved in a crime.
03:42 PM on 05/17/2012
By the time the cons are finally turfed from office (hopefully by 2015), what's left of the gun registry will be out-of-date and unreliable. A government wanting to keep a gun registry would likely have to start from scratch. I say good riddance to the registry, with its draconian punishments for noncompliance and its waste of taxpayers' money.
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11:05 PM on 05/16/2012
It's worth nothing that Mr. Worthington is arithmetically challenged. Billions of dollars? Let the criminals roam the streets of this nation scott free because Conservatives decided gun registry is a bad idea.

CONservatives are diseased.
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14Kestrel
04:40 PM on 05/16/2012
I am tired of hearing from the gun people about the billions this is costing us. This is nothing more than establishing a computor database. This does NOT cost billions. I want to see the actual accounting here. If billions have been appropriated for this, then I want to see indictments. I think the "billions" argument is BS. SHOW ME THE MONEY TRAIL !!!
02:25 AM on 05/17/2012
What? You can't use google or research a subject on your own? Here, I'll spoon feed you since a little initiative is apparently too difficult for you. http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_200605_04_e_14961.html
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Old Glenridge
in the Great White North
01:48 PM on 05/17/2012
That money was spent more than a decade ago. It is long gone.

The yearly maintenance was in the few millions.
markhahn
rational progressive
04:24 PM on 05/16/2012
don't be deliberately dense, Peter. it's obvious why registering a gun is different than registering a car: accidental and intentional gun deaths are not uncommon, but homicide-by-car IS uncommon. if my neighbor has a rifle, it IS objectively more of a threat to me than the car(s) parked in his driveway.

a functional, competent government must regulate issues of public health and safety. that certainly includes guns, cars, explosives, poisons, bacteria, etc.
03:55 PM on 05/16/2012
Interesting to find that most of the comments posted here are better researched and more informative than the article!
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Old Glenridge
in the Great White North
01:46 PM on 05/17/2012
My thougths exactly.
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03:14 PM on 05/16/2012
Before one can own or purchase a long gun one must have a F.A.C. The police can determine if a Perp. has a F.A.C. and if they do, assume the Perp. is armed and take the required action. Register the person not the weapon.
07:44 PM on 05/16/2012
Well said! Especially since a person may have a F.A.C. but not own a gun themselves. Possessing a F.A.C. entitles a person to legally BORROW a gun from another gun owner. This renders the registry useless since police will have no knowledge of the firearm being borrowed. However, when responding to emergency calls, police can respond with the knowledge that the person involved MAY be armed if they are registered as being in possession of a F.A.C. To reiterate, register the person, not the gun.
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08:24 PM on 05/16/2012
Well said Dan
03:45 PM on 05/17/2012
And I bet most cops assume that anyone may have a rifle in their home, and would enter one with that in mind. No need for a gun registry.
02:17 PM on 05/16/2012
According to Stats Can, approximately 75% of all homicides are committed by family members or acquaintances of the victims. If one considers only female victims of homicide, the rate is much higher. About 10% of homicides are committed by criminal associates of the victim. In only approximately15% of homicides is the victim a stranger to the murderer.

What this means is that fully three quarters of all murders in Canada committed by family members or acquaintances against family members or acquaintances. Not all by guns, of course, but if both handguns and long guns were registered, then it could help protect police called to the scene of a ‘domestic’ incident; it could help judges when setting terms of restraining orders, perhaps even allowing temporary confiscation of firearms; and it could help in solving crimes if a suspect was a registered owner of a firearm of a calibre and type suspected in the homicide.

Furthermore, knowing a gun was registered and easily traceable might also deter someone from using it against a spouse.

You say that criminals don’t register firearms...but aren’t all murderers criminals?

Everyone has to register their automobile, and not everyone commits parking or moving violations. But when they do, they are more easily found. Of course, criminals often steal getaway vehicles in order to be untraceable – should we therefore remove the necessity to register all vehicles?
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greenmonk
The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself
04:45 PM on 05/16/2012
You are much much too reasonable for the likes of Worthington and Sun Media.
F&F
02:15 PM on 05/16/2012
I continue to be stunned by the ongoing avoidance of the obvious question....how can our government spend so much on such a simple program. Why in this age of technical expertise and manement training is our Federal Government so inept at running even the most simple program. As taxpayers....it doesn't matter what way you vote....you get the same levels of bad management and lack of consideration for waste. The F35 debacle is not the first and will not be the last. Our government could not set up and manage a simple registry...and we wonder why they can't manage a multi-billion dollar arms deal?

Let's stop letting our media tell us what to be concerned about. Who cares about the long gun registry...if future governments want to bring it back they will. The bigger questions is why can't we have a government capable of managing the public administration??

Why can't we?
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Turdinthepunchbowl
Why do you always look back at me?
01:45 PM on 05/16/2012
Let me understand your logic. It's okay to put people in jail for wearing a mask in a public protest on the suspicion that they might break the law; but it's not okay to require a person to register a deadly weapon? The claim that the gun registry cost billions is bogus. It was estimated by the Auditor General to cost 1 billion over 10 years, much less than Harper's 1.2 billion weekend at the G20, where peaceful public protestors were beaten by the boys in blue. Owning a gun is not a right it is a privilege that I have had since I was 16 (over 3 decades ago) when I had to get an FAC (interviewed by the local detective). This is a manufactured controversy by many on the right and closely affiliated with many American right wing organizations (NRA). It was an excellent wedge issue Harper and his pundits used to divide the rural against the urban populations. As a rural Ontarian I found Harper's tactic deceitful and disgusting. If you're man enough to own a gun, be man enough to register it.
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Rob Vann
Hope for the best,Plan for the worst,Take what cms
04:24 PM on 05/16/2012
Well said.. another example of the American Neocon thinking and the influence of right wing gun nuts moving north.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/09/13/canada-nra-gun-registry.html
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Turdinthepunchbowl
Why do you always look back at me?
12:08 AM on 05/17/2012
Thanks for the link.  Take care.
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Brent Millar
When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro
01:36 PM on 05/16/2012
To even suggest that the Long Gun Registry " made criminals out of farmers and people in rural areas" is a massive stretch, a flase logic as it were. But the Gun Nuts will tell you that "they" are out to get them
The second false logic I object to is that killing the Registry somehow SAVED billions. It didn't, it's already been spent, never to be seen again. The only way the registry is an absolute waste of money is by killing it and the data collected.
Now we've got nothing left to show for $2.5 billion spent.
Brilliant.

Again Mr Worthington, I'm some what taken aback by your stance here. If it weren't for the headline, I'd swear you were actually for the Gun Registry, because you certainly seem to think all this uproar about registering guns is just nuts, and that Toews indignation that the CFO's won't just take commands from a Minister is mere hubris.

Where's the real Peter Worthington that I haven't agreed with since the war on terror began?
Never mind, I didn't like him very much, but this guy I could learn to live with.
03:52 PM on 05/17/2012
If you don't register your vehicle, you either leave it in your garage or you drive it illegally, in which case you face charges. If you refused or neglected to register your rifle, you were a criminal, with outrageously draconian consequences. The unregistered rifle in your grandma's attic, left there and forgotten for years after grandpa died, would make grandma a criminal.
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Brent Millar
When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro
05:43 PM on 05/17/2012
Please point to even one individual over the 15 year lifespan of the LGR that was charged and convicted. Or just charged for that matter. I'll wait, it could take you some time to find an example. Though I already know you won’t find one. See as a habit, I don’t usually show up to a gun fight with a knife and I don’t show up to debate based on my gut feelings.

As to your Granma example, it’s mere gibberish. You obviously didn't read the legislation did you?
Again, can you cite a single example of "grandma" that was busted for that? Just one example?
Or is this all just pie-in-the-sky fear mongering based on ignorance of the actual law and lack of critical thought?

I'll take the latter Alex...
01:25 PM on 05/16/2012
A lot of the arguments in this post for ending the long-gun registry - "making a lot of decent Canadians into criminals", "the federal government is saving the taxpayer considerable billions" - are valid reasons for legalizing marijuana. So I wonder why we don't see the government championing endingt that law as well?
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Old Glenridge
in the Great White North
03:03 PM on 05/16/2012
They are just fulfilling a promise to the right-wing base. They really don't care if it was a useful tool for cops (which is was/is). It is all about future elections.

They will never legalize or decrim weed. Because they keep telling their right-wing base that is a gateway drug and must be stopped. Your first toke one day .. a week later you will be shooting heroin into your eyeballs!
09:14 AM on 05/17/2012
You are, of course, 100% right. I am certainly not naive enough to think that the Harper Government would ever consider legalization. I just wanted to point out how weak and hypocritical the reasons given for ending the long gun registry were,
12:33 PM on 05/16/2012
Actually, the Federal Government is not saving the tax payers billions. After the setup (money already spent) the annual cost for the registry was about two million.