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Peter Worthington

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Just Because You Got Captured, Doesn't Mean You Should Get Paid

Posted: 06/07/2012 7:33 am

Something called the UN Committee Against Torture and Terrorism is blaming Canada, and seeks an apology and compensation for three Muslim Canadians who were held and allegedly tortured in Syria.

The three were apprehended separately in Syria -- 2001, 2002 and 2003 -- and it's possible, even likely, that truck-driver Ahmed al-Maati, electronics engineer Abdullah Almalti and geologist Muayyad Nureddin did nothing that would get them arrested, much less convicted, in Canada.

But they weren't in Canada. They were in Syria.

In his inquiry into the case, former Supreme Court Justice Frank Iacobucci cleared consular officials of any wrong doing, but noted that Canadian intelligence passed information to other intelligence agencies, which "indirectly" may have led to these guys being held -- one for 34 days, another for 22 months. One claimed the soles of his feet were beaten.

Intelligence services of allied countries routinely share certain information. And in these days of international terrorism, it is essential that this practice not only continue, but be expanded. But cautiously and accurately. If certain countries go too far, torturing or holding people in custody for long periods -- then the "victims" have an issue with that country.

These three guys should be suing Syria, not Canada.

But Canada has already shown that it'll pay big money if individuals are abused in countries like Syria -- a case in point is the $10 million awarded to Maher Arar who was an unwilling guest of the Syrian regime.

As for the UN Committee against T&T, it has a dossier of complaints against virtually every country in the world, with a large file against Canada. It is another useless, toothless, obnoxious UN body that concentrates on easy targets instead of rooting out real villains. And it has no power anyway. Imagine blaming Canada for abuses by Syria!

The UN group also bellyaches about alleged mistreatment of Omar Khadr at Guantanamo Bay. One wonders, what mistreatment would that be? In custody, yes, but how about the good food, sunshine, no obligations, no nonsense like water-boarding or deprived sleep, access to Red Cross and lawyers?

All Khadr has to complain about is being detained. But that's enough for the UN body to blame Canada for not wanting the guy back in our country as soon as possible. As for the three guys who ran into trouble in Syria -- tough bananas.

If you become a Canadian citizen from a country that does the sort of things Syria and Iran do, beware about visiting for weddings or holidays. If you take a chance, knowing full well what can happen, then it's your responsibility, not Canada's.

Yes, our diplomatic mission should do what it can to help citizens in trouble. But an individual's treatment by Syrians should not be cause for the Canadian government (read, taxpayer) to reward the person with a fancy payoff. It verges on the impudent for a UN agency to say Canadian "complicity" resulted in violation of the rights of these three guys who landed in Syrian jails. What "rights" does anyone have in Syria?

Worse, the agency seems to feel that the $10 million Arar got should be a standard for what others get as compensation. Nonsense. By all means, Canada can, and perhaps should, publicly condemn Syria for possible abuse towards Canadian citizens.

As for money -- no way. And no apology. But a warning to be careful next time.

 
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11:02 AM on 06/08/2012
The consular officials are very limited in what they can do to help Canadians detained by foreign governments, no matter the reason . The only thing they can really do is lodge a diplomatic protest and try to persuade the government to release those who are detained, but you can sure as hell bet that our protests will not be looked upon in the same way as one from the U.S. would be.

That said , Canadians who travel abroad must understand that they do so at the sufferance of the country they visit. This means that you obey their laws in every way. If the country you are visiting believes it has reasons to think you have contravened their laws, or are carrying out activities which they deem detrimental , you can expect to be arrested and subject to their usual form of detention. It is important to understand that you are not visiting a country that necessarily operates with a legal system and political system such as we have in Canada .

In my opinion , there is no right on the part of those who find them selves in such a predicament , much as I can sympathize with them , to sue the government . As to information being passed around from one agency to another, that is the way of this world and it is not going to change anytime soon.
09:23 AM on 06/08/2012
When a Canadian citizen is arrested abroad, the canadian gov't is supposed to investigate. And if a canadian citizen is wrongfully detained abroad, the Canadian gov't is supposed to get involved, and do what the can to assist their own citizen. When they do not do these things, and especially when they assist the foreign gov't to the detriment of their own citizen, someone needs to hold them accountable. This is nothing new, and we need to change. $10 million would have gone a long way toward getting our citizens home safely.
11:51 PM on 06/07/2012
This article if factually wrong. It would have been better for the writer to get his facts rights before writing anything. For one the former Supreme Court Judge who headed the inquiry in the three men's cases, did NOT clear consular officials in Almalki and Elmaate's cases in anyway, in fact he DID blame the Canadian officials and said that they failed in doing their duties. Even worse, he did blame them as well in being part of the RCMP questioning Almalki indirectly in Syria through the Syrian regime, fully knowing that he likely would be tortured, the Canadian embassy instead of doing their obligation of looking after a Canadian citizen, they passed questions to the Syrian regime to interrogate a Canadian Citizen on. Also he found that the RCMP and CSIS labeled these men falsely and without any bases, including sending false information to Syria suggesting that these men were a threat to Canada. Iacobucci found that all three men were tortured in Syria and that Canada was partly to blame for that torture, In fact in one case he did blame the resulting torture on Canada due to the RCMP sending questions to the Syrians and having the Syrians put the questions to Almalki under torture.... .this is some of what Iacobucci inquiry found.. quite different than what Peter Worthington falsely claim in this article and want people to believe.
12:31 PM on 06/07/2012
When you get tortured on my behalf because of the actions of my government--who I more than suspect of outsourcing its torture with a wink, a nod, and a tacit understanding--then you not only do and should get paid, you get my personal, and insufficient, apology for this government that has no moral compass whatsoever. We are not more civilized than these so-called "barbarous" torture regimes because we bought a veneer of plausible deniability from them. They're our beard. We all know how our current government, and the Republican party in the states from which they draw inspiration, feels about torture. They make only the minimum requisite effort to hide it.
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Cndnpatriot
12:26 PM on 06/07/2012
So we should forget about citizenship. Ceremonies and oaths mean nothing, promises to Canada aren't binding because Canada just doesn't recognize that you are not a citizen of the country of birth and therefore does not really have to live up to the promises made to you at the time of your "renunciation" of loyalty to any but the Canada. Does this apply to all countries or just ones that bigots don't like? Can we get a list of countries where if your born there your Canadian citizenship doesn't count? We have fought wars so non citizens can live free, do we not have the expectation that Canada will recognize our unjust imprisonment and torture with some recognition? I know that Canadian citizenship has meant less and less within our borders but must we announce that Canadians are fair game because Canada does not stand behind us. We stand on guard for thee but you throw us to the tortures. O Canada.
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albertarick
These are questions for wise men with skinny arms
11:50 AM on 06/07/2012
When the government collects and shares information, it has an obligation to do so responsibly. "Canadian intelligence passed information to other intelligence agencies, which "indirectly" may have led to these guys being held".
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Pondering panda
11:49 AM on 06/07/2012
I think its bullsh** that people will hold anyone but themselves accountable. If you full well know that there is a war going on and you still choose to travel to unstable parts of the world to see your cousin get married or whatever nefarious occasion it is, what happens to you is your own fault.
04:48 PM on 06/07/2012
Arar was seized in New York and shipped to Syria for torture by the Americans He was on his way home to Canada from a vacation in Tunisia. Stop blaming the victim.
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Pondering panda
08:24 PM on 06/07/2012
So please explain to me why he is suing Canada?? not America or Syria?
05:15 PM on 06/07/2012
I somewhat agree with your pondering, however, shouldn't the accountability then not apply to ALL Canadians, regardless of where they were born?

Peter Worthington believes that country of birth should determine if Canadians should be helped or not. That's discrimination, which is clearly illegal according to (something called) the Canadian Human Rights Act.

See #3: Prohibited grounds of discrimination:

For all purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are race, NATIONAL OR ETHNIC ORIGIN, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered.

What do you think? Shouldn't ALL Canadians be held to the same rules?
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Pondering panda
08:09 PM on 06/07/2012
I completely agree with you here ALL Canadians regardless of origin of birth. Mr.Worthington tends to be caustic when talking about race as can be seen on many of his blogs.
11:22 AM on 06/07/2012
Thank you for making this point. I am a first generation Canadian. My parents immigrated from Europe in the early 50's. Should I decide to take a chance and visit a geo-political hotspot to see family or for work, anything that happens to me is my own doing. I can request that the Canadian consulate or embassy be notified of my situation and, hopefully, negotiate a solution for me but that's where it ends. I chose to travel to the region; the government didn't force me to go. Why should all Canadians be on the hook for my lack of judgement or bravado.
11:01 AM on 06/07/2012
Peter Worthington is suggesting there are two kind of Canadians: those who were born here and those we were not. He's suggesting that those who are born here should have all the protection, but others, well, they have to stop travelling, even if these countries are deemed safe by the Canadian government.

Fortunately international law does not support such a fallacy.

If Canada has played part, directly or indirectly, in the torture of Canadians then it should pay up. No Canadian deserves to be tortured, not even the ones who were born elsewhere.

Peter's ideas divisive, and in my view unCanadian.
11:46 AM on 06/07/2012
Agreed and that is the crux - there ARE 2 kinds of Canadians and that is a shame. If there is a war and there is a conscription will the 2nd class Canadians be given the option of fighting or not ? Bet they will be on the front lines while the "real" Canadians will be held back. It is a sad indictment of a country like Canada that us immigrants are only here because of our talents and/or money. When the potential immigrants from "those" countries and others realise that they will be considered peasants here, and stop coming, then Canada will be up the creek without a paddle and then we will see how quick the message changes. Bon chance...
11:17 AM on 06/08/2012
They have to accept responsibility for travelling to these countries that operate in the way they do. The Canadian government should not be held financially responsible for their decisions .

You are right that no Canadian deserves to be tortured and the government should do all it can to prevent from happening , but I canot agree that the government becomes financially responsible if torture happens.
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PortlandZoo
Wait... what?
10:16 AM on 06/07/2012
such a compassionate man you are, pete (cough). I hope one of your own (a Canadian citizen and taxpayer) goes missing and gets mistreated or tortured in a foreign country - and when you appeal to your government to help, I hope it falls on ears as deaf as yours. And I want to see your birth certificate because you don't resemble any Canadian I know.
09:43 AM on 06/07/2012
Funny how we're pretending Syria is our hated enemy now, when we were using them to do our dirty work for us for about a decade.

WE don't torture, we have people for that sort of thing.

Of course, if any of these people were white christians, I can bet what side this writer would be on.
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09:26 AM on 06/07/2012
There is a big difference between someone being arrested in Syria because of their personal actions, and quite another for somebody to be sent to Syria for torture by Canadian and American agencies even though he was a Canadian citizen. Arar deserved every single dollar he got, he was not arrested by Syria, he was in JFK airport where the canadian and americna agencies kidnapped him and put him in the hands of the Syrian monsters.
When I first read about that, as an Israeli whose grandfather was tortured by the Syrian army, I truly felt for him.
11:20 AM on 06/08/2012
The Americans kidnapped Arar , not the Canadians . The Americans should have been the ones to be sued.