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Samantha Kemp-Jackson

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Is it Ever OK to Punish Someone Else's Child?

Posted: 12/04/2012 7:03 am

"It takes a village to raise a child," a wise woman once said. A noble philosophy one can concede, but is it realistic?

Sure, in some instances extended family is the glue that holds everything together, from child care to support to finances and more. There's nothing like having grandma and grandpa step in and give mom and dad a well-needed break.

But what about discipline? Does the "village" paradigm still hold when it comes to this touchy subject?

How we choose to discipline our children -- or not -- is one of the few polarizing topics that divides parents like no other. Discipline, which could mean anything from a "time out" to, in some cases, corporal punishment, is an extremely personal aspect of parenting. It's one of those topics that has been formed in our psyche from the time we ourselves were children. From those of us who may have received a "spank" here and there to others who were the victims of full-on physical abuse to still others who were spared the rod (and apparently became spoiled in the process), it remains a touchy subject in more ways than one.

When children enter the picture, couples are forced to discuss how the little ones will be disciplined. Often a point of contention, it's not unusual for disagreements to ensue. After all, if one party believes that spanking is acceptable and the other party disagrees, what to do when the child misbehaves becomes a source of struggle. To spank or not to spank -- that is the question, and most people fall squarely on one side of the fence or the other. The ensuing discussions and potential disagreements are considerably magnified when taken to the public forum.

It's one thing trying to sort out the best course of action when it comes to correcting your child and teaching them right from wrong. But how do you feel about other people disciplining your child?

We've all been in situations where there's been a public display of bad behaviour by a little one. Whether it's in your local grocery store or supermarket, the park or the movie theatre, it's never pleasant. Seeing a child in the throes of a full-on meltdown is only less stressful than watching a parent who doesn't do anything to quell the situation. It's annoying in the least and agonizing at best for those who sit by and do nothing.

But what can be done? Is it alright to discipline other people's children? Spanking notwithstanding, is it ever OK to jump in and take the bull by the horns? Whether or not you agree or disagree with spanking or otherwise, the overarching issue of discipline is one that becomes acutely in focus during public displays of bad behaviour.

We've all been in situations where there's an uncomfortable silence that counters the screaming of an unhappy child at the store/park/playground/[insert locale here]. It's uncomfortable not only because of the child's screaming, but because many of us don't know what to do. We're often stultified against our better judgement that tells us that the offending child just needs a good talking to -- or worse. What stops us in our tracks? Is it our fear of repercussions from the child's parents or other strangers? Is it the fear that perhaps we're wrong in our desire to stop the child and perhaps we should just let nature take it's course? Or is it the fact that we are ourselves unsure of what is the correct course of discipline for this or any child that steps out of the boundaries of acceptable behaviour?

The issue of boundaries when it comes to other people's children is one that, in our society, is sacred. We're taught to not cross that line, and when in doubt don't. We err on the side of caution just to be on the safe side. Often against our better judgement.

Yet, in many parts of the world, the "village" philosophy continues as it extends to children in public spaces. In these cultures, the support of the community is what in turn makes the same community strong, and if that includes public discipline of others kids, so be it. So what about us? Have we lost our sense of responsibility to others, or are we just being smart and staying out of the fray?

I'll put myself on record by saying that while I've never harshly "disciplined" another parent's child in public, I have spoken to kids who are out of line where I felt was appropriate. Case in point: at the local playground, there's been more than one occasion where a child was acting up, e.g. hitting another child in the sandbox, grabbing toys out of others hands, etc. This was in view of either the parent being there or close by and not doing anything. In each instance, I was thanked by the parent for stepping in. That being said, I'm not foolish enough to believe that similar future outcomes should be so rosy. We're all touchy about our children and our "mama bear" claws come out when we feel that they are either being threatened, or boundaries are being crossed.

In a similar situation where my child was acting out of turn, I would have no problem if a parent accordingly stepped in and said something to my child, as long as it was done in an appropriate manner (I would not tolerate spanking). It takes a village indeed.

 

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"It takes a village to raise a child," a wise woman once said. A noble philosophy one can concede, but is it realistic? Sure, in some instances extended family is the glue that holds everything toget...
"It takes a village to raise a child," a wise woman once said. A noble philosophy one can concede, but is it realistic? Sure, in some instances extended family is the glue that holds everything toget...
 
 
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08:33 AM on 12/05/2012
OK what's this got to do with Canadian Living??? Maybe I missed something unique to CL but what I read is a universal expectation... I always ask if I can help... the response will determine the behaviour ... being a super Senior (over 70) the grandfathEr approach works most often...
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07:36 AM on 12/05/2012
I get that parents have their own values. Even some of the comments posted here make me grit my teeth, they are so out of line with what I consider to be "normal" behaviour. I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is other people--even children-- interfering with my reasonable entitlement when in public. If you don't care to do something about your screaming child when dining out or grocery shopping, that is your prerogative. But mine is to be able to eat or shop without having to endure it. Your child rearing practices are your own but you don't get to foist them on me. I can and will say something to children running riot in restaurants and movie theatres and stores. I will also say something to mom's with children too young to be running but who are screaming up a storm. Yes, I have a child. Yes, he has had public meltdowns. At which point, he was removed from public. I find the "slippery slope" argument tiresome. Just because some situations may be a bit tricky does not mean that the vast majority of them are not. There are very very few public situations where I would expect a child's behaviour to be any different from an adult's (playgrounds, playgroups etcetera being the obvious ones that spring to mind).
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cdncommentator
10:58 PM on 12/04/2012
Here's where it's appropriate to step in: when someone is in danger; when the child is breaching your own personal space or disrespecting you in speech; when you know that the child's parent won't mind you helping out.

Otherwise, it's none of your business. You can't claim to know another child that isn't yours well enough to know what that child needs in terms of discipline (sometimes the parents can't figure it out either).

E.g. When my son was a baby, if I heard another person tell me that he needed a hat, gloves, blanket, etc. I thought I would kill them. Arggghhh!
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
11:41 PM on 12/04/2012
Those are great guidelines to follow for when to step in. Agreed, it's a fine line about deciding when it's appropriate to say something. I think it's also appropriate when the situation is out of control, or it's glaringly obvious that things need to be addressed, e.g. extreme meltdowns in public where parents don't bother to do anything and allow the child to go crazy. We've all been there where our kids lose it, and most of us parents have empathy for those other parents who are going through it at the time. It becomes problematic when the parents just watch from the sidelines, completely unstressed and don't think it's appropriate to try to calm the child or remove them from the situation.
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cdncommentator
09:44 AM on 12/05/2012
Thank you for your comment.  The one area I disagree with you is where a situation is out of control and the parents aren't doing anything.  Unless there is a risk of someone being injured, or your own or your child's personal space is being violated, people should stay out.  We don't know what the situation is, if the child is just having a meltdown, if the child has an illness, a developmental issue, autism, etc.  There's nothing wrong with asking the parents if you can be of assistance, but I think it's crossing boundaries to take it upon yourself to discipline a child that isn't yours outside of the considerations I've listed.  You're likely to get yelled at or worse.

If you're in a theatre, call an usher.  If you're in public, walk away or move.  That sends a strong message.  There are many reasons why parents appear to be doing nothing.  It may not be an absence of caring for others.  It may be exaspiration, not knowing what to do, or depression.

Anyway, thanks for a good article.
09:05 PM on 12/04/2012
The ten year old brat of some friends always tells me what I can or can 't say. They refuse to say anything, so I am forced to tell him that he isn't allwed to speak to me that way. Not punishing, but I'd prefer they would teach him respect.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
11:38 PM on 12/04/2012
Parents refusing to say or do anything are part of the problem. If the parents were disciplining the child in the first place, these incidents wouldn't be occurring.
08:46 PM on 12/04/2012
EXCELLENT article and a point that I have pondered many times. If a child is rude towards me or my family members, I deem it my business to approach them/their parent about the topic. If they are endangering anyone, I will absolutely step in without question. I have stopped going to play groups where the children continually misbehave. Funny how your social group eventually dwindles to parents who usually share your outlook on how to raise your children! Thanks Sam, all great points.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
11:42 PM on 12/04/2012
Thanks for the kinds words, Cheryl :)
I agree that if a child is rude or disrespectful to me or others, and the parents are around and doing nothing, that it's appropriate to say something. As I'll keep saying, it's infuriating when you see kids that are out of control and the parents turn a blind eye to it because they don't want to bother dealing with it - at the expense of others.
07:48 PM on 12/04/2012
I confess that while I was employed at a fabric store, I once told a child whose mom had handed him a pair of scissors and turned him loose to slice up merchandise while she went to look at pattern catalogs that I would cut his nose off if he didn't put the scissors back and sit quietly. Which is definitely not the right reaction, but I was only a teenager myself at the time.

Faced with the same situation today, I would calmly inform the mother that she would be paying for anything damaged by her child.

Under most circumstances, it's not appropriate to discipline a child, but it's sometimes necessary to stop dangerous behavior. Like another commenter, my husband has stopped children from hurting animals at the park. He's fortunate in that he has a certain look which stops most children instantly without a word spoken.
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Lou on Vancouver Island
Allin, Lou: Mystery Author
07:08 PM on 12/04/2012
My mother was a vice principal, five foot nothing, in Cleveland inner city schools. She was much loved and respected, but she took no guff. On one long plane flight, a five year old was tearing up and down the aisles, screaming. The parents took no notice. My mother waited for the right moment, then stuck out her foot discreetly. Down he went. Wahhhh. "Oh, little boy, are you all right?" she said as only an innocent old lady could. She told this story with considerable relish.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
12:35 AM on 12/05/2012
Ha!! I can't help but laugh (though I know I probably shouldn't....) ;)
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lionstar
There is no 'try'.
05:40 PM on 12/04/2012
Actually I have yelled out to children to "STOP" when I've seen bad behaviour towards animals, in one case the kids were throwing rocks at ducks in a public park. I would never touch someone's child, but I would get in their way physically if they were being abusive to animals or other children and their parents were being oblivious.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
12:36 AM on 12/05/2012
In situations like this, how can one NOT say something? Cruelty to animals is NEVER okay, and the sooner children learn this the better (if not from their parents, at least from someone else).
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RaisingGreatMen
Real talk about raising boys to become men of char
05:19 PM on 12/04/2012
Great article! I think there is a time and place to intervene if a child is behaving inappropriately, especially if there are doing something that would endanger the child or other children. The next course of action would be to tell the child's parent or caregiver about the behavior. I agree that there are boundaries that should be respected.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
12:37 AM on 12/05/2012
It's a fine line and a slippery slope, isn't it? As parents, we're always doing a balancing act, and in cases like this it's particularly difficult.
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MJLevesque
If I'm a super user, where is my cape?
03:41 PM on 12/04/2012
I used to have a neighbor who had three children, two boys and a girl. The neighbor would put the kids out in the yard and ignore them. The two boys would run back and forth, play ball, etc., and their sister would just stand there motionless and scream as if her hair were on fire. For HOURS. There is no way that the parents could not hear this -- it was happening right outside their back door (and mine). Clearly they had no inclination to do anything about it. Possibly they were engaged in parental selective hearing that I've heard so much about. So one afternoon I rushed out the back door and ran up to the little girl. "Are you OK?" I asked, with a concerned look on my face. Little girl stopped shrieking and said, "Yes!" I then asked, "Are they hurting you?" (looking at the two boys). "No," she said. "Well, it sounds like you are being hurt terribly! You scared me! If you are not being badly hurt, you should not scream like that. Please stop it!" It only took a couple more times looking out the door and checking on her before she did actually stop it.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:50 PM on 12/06/2012
Great story! Way to take the bull by the horns. It's pretty unbelievable that the parents would choose to "selectively ignore" their child screaming at the top of her lungs. It boggles the mind...
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StoneScribe
When politics, passion, and piety collide.....
03:36 PM on 12/04/2012
Does any parent teach boundaries anymore? Kids who are allowed to do their thing without any guidelines from the adults in their lives feel insecure and unloved. No wonder they act out. They want someone to tell them acceptable from not. Boundaries help kids know what is appropriate in a situation. We can teach boundaries in a loving, non-punitive manner. We also need to repeat frequently that kids should think of others as well as themselves. It's not always about them.
09:10 PM on 12/04/2012
You are absolutely correct. How often do you hear a parent say something followed by " okay?".
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:51 PM on 12/06/2012
And the parents who teach their children boundaries early on won't have to deal with situations where their kids are out of control and in need of discipline by other parents!
botazefa
Sounds like Bodhisattva
03:00 PM on 12/04/2012
Never heard of "In loco parentis?"
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:52 PM on 12/06/2012
Yes. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the person "in loco parentis" should discipline the child in the way that they see fit, especially if they're not of the same point of view in terms of what's appropriate when it comes to discipline.
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ToniChicago
02:58 PM on 12/04/2012
There's a big difference between "stepping in" and stopping a fight between kids, and disciplining someone else's child. As long as you don't admonish the child or put them in a time out (which I think is over-stepping the mark), most parents can't have a problem if you get between two fighting children, since it's probably a safety measure too.
The problem when you discipline other people's children is that you may not have the same values as the parents. Curse words, for example, are notoriously subjective - the most you can do is tell a child that a particular word isn't OK in your own house, or perhaps tell the child that you don't like being spoken to in that way. Again, you can't put the kid in a timeout.
The biggest problem I have ever had with other people "gently" discipling my kids is when I'm going out of my way to ignore the behavior. We are told time and again that ignoring unwanted behavior is often a good way to eliminate it, and I have always tried that with talking back and other unwanted verbal stuff. You wouldn't believe the well-meaning people who step in and say "Don't speak to your mother like that" and don't even stop to consider that I may not be addressing it for a specific reason. Grr..
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:54 PM on 12/06/2012
It's certainly a fine line between knowing when to step in and when to leave things well enough alone. I think we've all been in situations where we are confronted with a child that needs some discipline but wonder whether or not we should involve ourselves or not. It's probably best to err on the side of caution unless the situation is so overwhelming that it needs to be addressed immediately.
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ToniChicago
08:58 AM on 12/07/2012
And let's not forget that it's hard enough to keep your own kids on the straight and narrow without having to think about other people's kids! 
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DianaLynn1967
It's a great life if you don't weaken!
02:17 PM on 12/04/2012
Discipline is teaching. Yes, it is acceptable for another adult to step in and teach one's child. However, like the author, I would never tolerate another adult hitting my child. I don't believe in hitting children anyway and would probably get violent myself if another adult hit my child.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:55 PM on 12/06/2012
I'm with you, Diana. I don't believe that spanking is the answer at all and if anyone ever hit my child...well, they'd definitely have to deal with me!
02:13 PM on 12/04/2012
Maybe it's because I'm a teacher and am used to it, but I have never had a problem telling other people's kids to watch their behavior. I usually wait to see if the parent will say something, but if they don't, I will. Sometimes it's just a case of a child never having been told that certain behavior is not acceptable, or at least not nice. Other times the parents are too distracted by conversation/ phone/ etc. and ignoring their kid, so someone needs to step in.
03:02 PM on 12/04/2012
Agreed - after having taught kids and especially run the after-school program, if a kid is not behaving, I say something right away. This probably annoys people - I know I sometimes have to bite my tongue around my friends and their kids, because I automatically want to reply. Not that my freinds are slow to do anything, they react right away, so sometimes we're both reacting at the same time and I need to back off.

I will always step in - children need to know that other people, even strangers, are affected by what they are doing and there's no better way for them to learn that than to have someone other than a parent do something.

I would phsycially restrain a kid if they were hurting themselves or others and deal with the repricussions, but I will not allow a child to damage people or property while a parent is negligent or simply unavailable.
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Samantha Kemp-Jackson
07:57 PM on 12/06/2012
True, perhaps being a teacher gives you the confidence to step in but I know that many of us think long and hard before making the decision to speak up. Sometimes I wish that more people would step in in situations that are out of control, particularly when the parent is too engaged with their cell phone to notice that their child is about to burn down the store.