Feb 7, 2013 at 11:37:09
“I have a deep feeling that advertising is not just a barometer of the withering depravity of modern industrial civilisation but also something that contributes to it full and whole ...
... I have long and fond memory of those molson canadian commercials back in the 60s and so completely bask in loving cushy warmth whenever i see any kind of molson canadian advert. I'll even order a molson canadian beer for the same very reason even though it's nothing special on the beer front.
I ain't saying it's rational. It's just what it is. and I'm just sayin'
Molson Canadian ... la-ger beer ... beer beer ... molson-beer”
“I truly believe that the base of many of our modern problems, and in the context of this discussion, those related to nutrition and health especially, have come about through the development of agriculture which then continued on to the development of industry. Two aspects of civilization that appear to be much more alike than different. I also feel that we are approaching or are perhaps within a transition period at this very moment where the system that has sustained us is at the point of saturation. We have gone beyond our carrying capacity. Many times over I fear. For many many years I have felt that in the end the only possible 'sustainable' situation for human societies is hunter gatherer/stone age. Over recent years though I have been reading some of Wendell Berry's brilliant writing and feel myself leaning towards a possibility of a sort of sustainable agriculture. A chance perhaps. Mind, I still think that in the end hunter gatherer is what it will end up at.”
“I take, I suppose, as completely an opposite position as can be found from your own. I mostly live on meat that I have hunted myself (strangely, this winter has found me in Thailand spending a fair bit of time in rural areas in the north. It has been amazing and inspiring to see how people live and eat here) and collect a fair bit of my vegetables etc from the wild when I can. Not all of it but much of it. I have witnessed the exchange that happens between hunter and hunted. More recently from my own deep personal hunting experience and also since childhood spending time in wild places and observing nature at work. It is all around for those that would care to look. An awareness of where everything I eat is coming from and a memory of being a part of the ending of a life - both animal and non-animal - is profound in so many ways. In truth, it feels wrong to even write about it; that the depth could never be truly expressed; that such a thing spoken looses its power. I can say that my own experience with eating in this way is absolutely healthy. The physicality that goes with this type of living also contributes to this wellbeing. When I am back in the place where I may live in this manner, every aspect of my life improves. Within and without.
thanks so much for getting in touch.
I believe that you are incorrect to say that meat is not healthy. I would say that grains, legumes and certain vegetable oils are unhealthy and are having a devastating effect on the health of the modern industrial world. But really that is all a matter of opinion and all people are entitled to theirs and generally do as they wish anyway.”
“The loss of the natural world devastates me and it seems unbearable. The entire focus of my own work revolves around the disconnection between the wild and industrial worlds. It makes me sad but I am sorry to say that the path you seem to wish humanity to follow is a contributor to this great loss. I say that believing that you yourself must also feel what you feel and work towards with great passion and despair at loss. I respect that. Deeply. It's just, well .. not it, I'm afraid.”
“The one other thing I take issue with is your comment,'To the degree that poor people cut back on, or eliminated, meat from their diets, this tax would help them--just like tobacco and alcohol taxes. I'm afraid that taxes on alcohol and tobacco don't help them reduce their consumption. Rather it simply helps them reduce their cash. A tax on meat or tobacco or alcohol is a poverty penalty and really doesn't seriously affect the wealthy at all. Unless we take into their accept their outrage that they get taxed. Period.
“This is such a tiresome argument. The evils of meat etc etc. It's really about the disaster of industrial agriculture and it's not just the meat industry that is a big problem (which it truly is in the most profound sense) but also plant industrial agriculture. There are many good books and thinkers out there countering the prevalent modern beliefs about food. My favourite is The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. My thinking is that the diseases mentioned in the article are diseases of civilisation, not caused by the specific overconsumption of meat. It is also an extremely complicated problem. A tax would only punish the poor who are already struggling to get proper nutrition. It would be disastrous.”
CatThompson on Apr 5, 2011 at 11:43:38
“re my earlier posts. sorry i wrote a long piece and tried to upload it piecemeal. It's out of order! sorry about that.”
hp blogger Bruce Friedrich on Apr 5, 2011 at 07:12:19
“Hey there CT,
Thanks for taking the time to reply, since you find the arguments so tiresome! :-)
I agree that it's not JUST the meat industry that's the problem, but the meat industry is a problem, independent of concentration--meat is not healthy or environmentally benign, even in the best case scenario. One great place for people to start, if they're trying to green their eating, is by eliminating animal products.
To the degree that poor people cut back on, or eliminated, meat from their diets, this tax would help them--just like tobacco and alcohol taxes.