“I remember someone gave me a quote from Mathew that identified a way to claim that the Bible says that one with conviction to God should not interact with those who "sin".
I should have asked what type of Christian they were, because that reasoning pretty much contradicts exactly what Christ, himself, did while he was on earth... or so they say he did.
I have a feeling it might have been specifically about churches or prayer gatherings, though. Guess some think it applies to everywhere, like some cake shop owners we all know. =(”
juanjo on Dec 9, 2013 at 17:58:11
“It would also violate the specific statement found in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 which specifically says that one is not to judge those outside your church nor does one have to separate them from you in business and daily existence. The passage specifically says that it is not up to the person to judge but rather to god to do so.”
TXanimal on Dec 9, 2013 at 14:46:54
“You've identified the exact moment when I got up out of my chair at Sunday school, walked out of the church, and never went back. When my teacher brought up that passage in Matthew and said "see kids, this is why we don't associate with Jews or gays...they'll turn us away from God". I literally laughed out loud. The cognitive dissonance was apparent to me even at 15.
Jesus' story has some great life lessons. Unfortunately, it gets lost in the dogma and self-righteousness.”
“It's bad enough that Trans* people need to worry more than they should about whether someone is going to kill them for BEING Trans* or not, but then once it happens.... the worlds media goes and misgenders you.
And the cycle of ignorance continues in the wake of tragedy. Almost feels like an enshrinement of the very attitude that propagates these types of murders in the first place, by the media and those who simply reject the victims identity.
Why, why, why are humans prone to falling pray to the most illogical behaviors and actions, imaginable... learn about the people you report on before you start talking about them, my goodness... should be Reporting 101.”
ingenue2u on Dec 9, 2013 at 14:13:41
“If they can't even get that BASIC aspect of trans people's identities correct they should not even publish the stories and leave it to the media outlets who actually emphasize a modicum of humanity in their reporting.”
“They'd need to practice what they preach, in relation to voter suppression, before they can even touch that pedestal. North Carolina's voting law, for instance. Felt like I was slapped in the face when I read all the restrictions they put in. Then you have the obvious instances of gerrymandering in Texas. Also, have a new proposal to change federal elections by breaking up states electoral votes... where the only proposals that have been submitted have been to a single parties most supportive states.
It's a jungle over there. I enjoy watching their politics, but the US system is pretty broken right now. Great example of what can go wrong when it comes to tinkering with the system we call Democracy.”
lk415 on Dec 8, 2013 at 17:25:07
“I know about all the state voter fraud perpetuated by the Republican party. Democrats need to get tough, and democracy needs to prevail throughout the world.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 23:20:31
Canada British Columbia
“"you think he is sitting on his duff not doing anything but praying?"
Exactly, you just made my point. You defined prayer as a singular action. "Anything BUT praying?" Prayer, by itself, is worthless. That's what this ad emphasizes. Doing something brings value to the feelings behind whatever you're wishing or praying for. That's a whole separate action. Prayer's an action, doing is another action. They are not the same.
The issue here is that people are adding Doing + Praying together, when they are separate behaviors in the context they're shown. Praying is a communication or conversation between oneself and whatever it is you're praying to... be it a God, an idea, a star, or a statue.
What I see in your post is that you are redefining the word "Prayer" to mean something more than it is. What you just described is human interactive discussion, not prayer.
"Or you think he shouldn't be praying at all but 'doing' 24/7?"
No, that's a false dichotomy. I'd rather he find counselling with experts on the things he plans to "do" something about, not ask for guidance from a deity, in which no evidence is available to support whether an answer can even happen from this communication. Your description defines him as having discussions with an adviser. If the adviser is giving him the answers, it's not prayer.. its not a conversation with a deity/idea.
You are mixing Prayer and doing (preparation/learning/studying is doing), like many others.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 8, 2013 at 00:01:59
“The Catholic Louis Pasteur's discovery of germs was a turning point in the understanding of infection.
Lister (a Quaker) was the first to apply his discoveries to surgery, changing surgical practice forever.
Davy and Faraday, who discovered and pioneered the use of anaesthesia in surgery, were well known for their Christian faith, and the obstetrician James Simpson, a very humble believer, was the first to use ether and chloroform in midwifery.
James Syme, an excellent pioneer Episcopalian surgeon, was among the first to use anaesthesia and aseptic techniques together.
William Halsted of Johns Hopkins pioneered many new operations and introduced many more aseptic practices (eg rubber gloves), while William Keen, a Baptist, was the first to successfully operate on a brain tumour.
The man who discovered the small pox vaccination and is credited with saving more human lives than anyone in history was a christian. "Dr Jenner was a very conventional Christian, worshiping in the town's parish church (Church of England) next to his home and Berkeley Castle. He and his family are buried there, in the church of St Mary the Virgin, Berkeley."
Seriously.....you have done what again but you think you should have been able to tell these people how to spend their time and not to waste it praying? You are a HOOT.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 7, 2013 at 23:57:50
“Dr John Scudder was among the first Western missionaries of the modern era and in 1819 went to Ceylon.
Among the best-known pioneer medical missionaries were David Livingstone (Central Africa), Albert Schweitzer, a talented doctor, theologian and musician, who devoted his life to people living in the remote forests of Gabon, and Albert Cook, who founded Mengo Hospital in Uganda.
William Wanless founded the Christian Miraj Hospital in India, and Ida Scudder founded the world-famous Vellore Medical College in the same country.
Hudson Taylor spread the gospel and western medicine to China and founded the China Inland Mission. Paul Brand pioneered missions to lepers. Henry Holland and his team, working in the north-west frontier of the Indian sub-continent, operated on hundreds of cataracts every day. Others have been influential in the prevention of such diseases as malaria and tuberculosis.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 7, 2013 at 23:54:53
“Here is an article on Christians contribution to medicine...when you have done anything to compare to this get back to me.
The Salvation Army, founded in 1865 by William Booth, provided much-needed medical care in impoverished inner city areas and homes for women who had been induced into prostitution. Unmarried mothers were cared for, and these projects have spread all over the world.
Great Ormond Street Hospital was founded by Charles West, a Baptist, to meet the needs of sick children who were inadequately cared for by 'habitually drunk (nurses) with easy-going, selfish indifference to their patients, and no knowledge or skill of nursing.'
Dr Thomas Barnardo set up his children's homes after seeing the terrible plight of thousands of hungry and homeless children in the East End. Inner city missions bringing a combination of medical care and the gospel were set up. Christians were at the forefront of temperance movements. Care for the blind and deaf were areas drawing direct inspiration from Jesus. Use of Braille worldwide and schools for the deaf were pioneered by evangelical Christians.
St Joseph's Hospice in Hackney, founded by the Sisters of Charity in 1905, was the prototype of the modern hospice movement. Dame Cicely Saunders founded St Christopher's Hospice in 1967, with the aim of providing as peaceful an atmosphere as possible for those in their terminal illness, while offering an environment of Christian love and support. https://www.cmf.org.uk/publications/content.asp?context=article&id=827
You are laughable.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 7, 2013 at 23:50:06
“Seriously....you don't think Obama does consult with 'the experts'??? You are too off the wall to bother with. You obviously think you should run people's thought life 24/7 and they should do do do what you tell them too.
We have hospitals in Vancouver that were founded by nuns....you think they did nothing but pray? or they weren't entitled to spend any time praying, they should have been 'doing' 24/7?
St. Paul's Hospital is an acute care hospital located in downtown Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. t is the oldest of the seven health care facilities operated by Providence Health Care, a Roman Catholic faith-based care provider. .This hospital was founded in 1894 by the Sisters Of Providence who (from their base in Montreal) founded schools, hospitals and asylums all over North America and other continents.
It was named after the French bishop, Paul Durieu of New Westminster. Mother Mary Fredrick from Astoria, Oregon was the first mother superior and administrator to lead its charge. In keeping with the philosophy of the Sisters of Providence, the new hospital was founded on the pledge of providing compassionate care for everyone in need." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Paul%27s_Hospital_%28Vancouver%29
I actually don't think you know much about prayer or how people pray.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 22:55:43
Canada British Columbia
“I'm conflating nothing. Prayer, as an action, does nothing. Doing, as an action, does something. They are polar opposites when it comes to progressing the solution of an issue. If I pray for a child to get better, instead of healing him with medicine, of course he'll stay ill. If I pray for rain in African crops, instead of giving to the food bank, of course Africans will starve. If I pray for world peace, instead of moderating a discussion between opposing factions in the effort to conclude the conflict, I can't say I did anything at all.
Two separate actions, two separate results. One is quite obviously more beneficial than the other... and that's what this ad's statement tells us. Anything beyond wishing someone or something becomes better is not a prayer, it's doing something. You don't get to put prayer on the same shelf as doing something... they are not the same.
You cannot seem to present your definition of prayer, even when asked, so I guess we're done here. Thanks for the game of ring-around.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 23:55:42
“Polar Opposites? Still miss the point people who pray do take active roles in their lives. Thank you proving my point my using the phrase "polar opposites." See I understand the intention of the ad on first observation, but it took you time too reveal the true intention of the ad.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 21:48:25
Canada British Columbia
“The issue here is that people are mixing the act of prayer with other actions.
Prayer, itself, is a single act. It's a single behavior. It's a communication with a deity, and that's all it is. That's what this ad hits on, that one... very real definition. You should be happy that an ad is pushing people, who may believe that prayer is all one needs to help another person, to get out there and do something real. It has nothing to do with ANY OTHER action made by the individual... whether it be charity work or otherwise. Praying and donating are two different actions with two different behaviors behind them, but i'm seeing people mix the two. No... prayer stands alone.
The idea is that the statement "Praying won't help. Doing will." Only focuses on the singular action of prayer. We have a mountain of studies, now, that support the idea that prayer or miracles are simply not happening. We know we can make a difference by doing something, so why not make the differentiation with the evidence before us? Prayer doesn't work, doing works. Nothing misleading about that... any statements beyond that, such as whether God is real... or whether Christianity is a farce.... is totally off point and jumping to conclusions. All this statement says is to focus your efforts on something real, and not something that has no power behind it.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 7, 2013 at 22:49:05
“President Obama is a Christian and prays.....you think he is sitting on his duff not doing anything but praying? Or you think he shouldn't be praying at all but 'doing' 24/7?
"The President is obviously a -- is Christian," Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton said. "He prays every day. He communicates with his religious advisor every single day. There's a group of pastors that he takes counsel from on a regular basis. And his faith is very important to him, but it's not something that is a topic of conversation every single day."
Dec 7, 2013 at 21:38:34
Canada British Columbia
“I understand. That's the crux of the issue in our discussion. We'd never get past that so long as you define prayer as any action other than communication with a deity, which is solidly stated in most dictionaries. I'm just going by dictionary definition, here. Any assertion that it is more than this requires some backing to that claim.
I hope the next time you wish to discuss what prayer is, you make the effort to establish a solid, well defined explanation for the term, itself.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 22:41:39
“That was accept that they are different things. You still seem to be insistent on conflating them.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 12:23:20
Canada British Columbia
“And there it is again. "People who do pray, do make accomplishments through actions." But those actions AREN'T prayers!!!! Do you see the bad logic displayed directly in your sentence. People who do pray (comma, meaning one line of thought complete... this is a single action).
Let's try to define what prayer is, here.
1. a. a personal communication or petition addressed to a deity, esp in the form of supplication, adoration, praise, contrition, or thanksgiving
b. any other form of spiritual communion with a deity
2. a similar personal communication that does not involve adoration, addressed to beings venerated as being closely associated with a deity, such as angels or saints
For all intensive purposes, the definition of a prayer is a communication between you and some power-to-be for whatever reason you wish it.
The POINT is that talking to something in the sky to accomplish a goal doesn't work. Making the effort, yourself, to complete or fix something DOES work.
I'm not sure what definition of prayer you're using, but there is no "act" in praying other than talking to something beyond nature, in the hopes that it'll provide assistance IN YOUR STEAD.
I'm perplexed about just how steadfast you are in this idea that prayer means something more than it really does. If you are determined to define it as such, please provide me a dictionary excerpt or something that describes what in the world you're trying to say prayer is.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 20:10:38
“Still can not accept that praying and doing are two different things.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 12:10:42
Canada British Columbia
“Is that to suggest the rejection of this billboard was in the effort to stop Atheism from being a representative of the billboard owners brand?
I agree, in principle, that opportunity should be equal across the board for theistic/non theistic views. The question, here, is whether a billboard service is a public or private service. Seeing as it is not solely run by private owners, as the city must regulate and oversee that these very public displays are not showing improper images/messages, it is distinguished as a public service.
With that in mind, preventing images on an ideological basis, alone, does not constitute as an option. Seeing as the billboard owners did not suggest any alternative reason for denying this ad, this issue must be pushed forward as an act of discrimination.
Didn't really get the crux of your statement, whether its just a commentary, or input on the issue at hand, so I thought i'd just roll out the situation as it stands, just in case.”
Esjael815 on Dec 8, 2013 at 10:22:37
“My comment there was more of a side-note. I agree that a billboard service is a bit more complicated than that, and it also isn't an overtly religious organization (so he really doesn't have a leg to stand on).”
Dec 7, 2013 at 09:55:02
“It's not as though I was using that anecdote to prove anything. I know all about how our immune systems are built differently across different regions and ethnicities. Just look at the Native Americans with Small Pox, and Europeans with Syphalis (potentially). I also know its important for the immune system to train itself and get stronger to counter-act every day illnesses. In a way, it can be thought of as... well.. an anti-virus program. HIV, unfortunately, targets that program and that's where this issue lies.
I am wholly certain a breakthrough will come, and I already know science leaves no stone unturned when it comes to solutions to a problem. I certainly don't need to be reminded of this reality. Pardon the defensiveness, but your comment was a little preachy to points I was already well aware of. Was simply informing of another story, and no more.”
FelixRat on Dec 7, 2013 at 10:16:00
“And I was only responded to your saying "There must be a reason why they aren't trying." … Before you cast aspersions on the quite amazing advances that have been and continue to be made made in HIV treatment, at least find out what you are talking about. Breakthroughs are happening all the time. The difference in treatment, and outcomes, now compared to even 5 years ago, is staggering.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 09:40:26
Canada British Columbia
“I think you're still trying to relegate prayer to being an action that has an effect. Of course, if you're a believer, the point is going to be lost on you because you'd consider prayer to play a role in some way by the powers-to-be. That could explain your discourse with the issue. As it stands, prayer does not contend with the actualization of that wish by influencing the issue with your own, personal contact... whether it be an emotional or physical one. Whether it be money, or resources.
These are all things where prayer cannot contend, and that's the point... prayer is powerless to the real changing forces in life... human interaction. It's only misleading if you define prayer as more than it really is... It's just wishing something will happen.
No wishing, get out there and do something to meet your goals. This advertisement wont be understood by those who believe prayer actually gets things done.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 10:28:05
“Praying and doing are disjoint acts. That is the point that is being made.
People pray for different reasons, which is something that some refuse to understand. Instead they use praying a strawman.
This idea that people pray to supplant actions is utterly false.
"No wishing, get out there and do something to meet your goals. This
advertisement wont be understood by those who believe prayer actually
gets things done."
People who do pray, do make accomplishments through actions. That is how they make their accomplishments. However, when one wants to attack praying they miss that simple point.
That is what makes it false advertisement, and a justified reason for it being rejected.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 06:23:39
“I remember watching a documentary about 3 years ago about a man in Britain with this gene. He was around 40 years old, and has had sexual contact with at least 3 individuals who were HIV positive.
Whether the strain they had was weak, or no bodily fluids ended up swapping, I certainly don't know. This gene is definitely a reality, though whether scientists can manipulate or copy the effects into one not carrying said gene is an entirely different matter. There must be a reason why they aren't trying.”
FelixRat on Dec 7, 2013 at 06:45:26
“I can't speak to the example you gave, but it certainly doesn't seem like scientifically sound experiment, the results, therefore, are only anecdotal... As I said, becoming infected with HIV involves a number of factors, and even unprotected sexual contact between a positive person and someone who does not carry any genetic resistance, does not necessarily result in infection 100% of the time. Just as a married couple sharing a bed together may or may not pass a cold onto one another despite very close contact. That said, research into how genes interact with disease is in its early days, (the human genome project only completed mapping the genome in 2003) and certainly gene therapy itself is in its infancy. And its is quite wrong to assume that HIV research is not looking into all avenues, in spite of what the above individual may claim. HIV treatment advances and changes rapidly every year.”
Dec 7, 2013 at 06:00:35
Canada British Columbia
“Praying is a pretty defined action. The only active ingredient when it comes to prayer is wishful thinking.
Those active roles are not components of prayer, but action (or DOING). The statement only goes as far as saying "Prayer wont help", which is a true statement. It says nothing about other actions, as you listed, which are mutually exclusive actions that stand beyond the behavior of prayer.
"People who pray do take active roles in their lives"
This ad has nothing to do with PEOPLE who pray, but prayer itself. This is something a lot of you commenters just aren't understanding. The statement has nothing to do with the person behind the prayer, but the behavior of praying, itself. Prayer is a passive gesture of wishful thinking. The only effect it provides is personal gratification, as though you've done something to forward the cause you pray for. That behavior is inherently unhelpful, but doing something active, like those examples you speak, will build a solution.
You just made the ad's point for them by saying what you just did. "Active roles" work, where a passive role like Prayer wont. Thank you.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 07:21:18
“The ad is misleading, and is designed to confuse rather than inform.
People pray for various different reason, and is disjoint for the act of doing.
It is one paragraph with two sentences. Both part of one theme and designated to send one message.
Dec 6, 2013 at 23:54:10
Canada British Columbia
“Oh, why did you focus on the most irrelevant part of my comment? I used Christians as a simple filler for a noun in the description of the "No true scotsman" fallacy, in which you yourself have committed. It could have been any religion. Re-read my post again now that you know this, and perhaps it'll make more sense to you. I make no comment about the substance of the idealogy, you mis-read.
" i do find it interesting that some feel the need to question/disprove/convert the beliefs of others."
This is the most "duh" worthy comment i've seen to date. Of COURSE people feel the need to question/disprove/convert the beliefs of others!!! Why wouldn't we? That's how progression is made in society. Are you aware how humanity has moved forward, both on an intellectual and social basis? We question the ideas of those around us, we disprove them in the effort to chisel out the most true and real definition of this world, and we "convert" (I rather use the word teach, but to each their own?) those with wrong beliefs about things in order to bring them up to date with the existing evidence. All these billboards do is hand out alternative perspectives of the world... yet you consider that radical or preachy. Laughable....
This is how humanity has worked since the dawn of time, yet you dislike this? We shouldn't question or challenge peoples beliefs? What a sad world that would be.”
Retro Dude on Dec 7, 2013 at 07:45:25
“there is a movement happening and its being financed which in itself is interesting.”
Dec 6, 2013 at 21:37:02
Canada British Columbia
“This is a little startling to me, actually. Our province has a reputation of being incredibly non-religious, in that over half of our population is either non-theistic or has no allegiance to a particular religion. It's really strange to hear a story like this coming out of BC.
I don't see the message as anything offensive. It would, however, if you put incredible trust in prayer. The idea that we should value doing something over wishful thinking is a great lesson, and one i'm happy this billboard would try to teach. Whether you label it a wish, or a prayer, I really don't care.... i'd rather have someone do something to help me than pray for my problem to be corrected.
As for the "Good without God" concept.... ya, Atheists are capable of being good without the belief in a God. Is that point offensive? Not like it says "You can only be good without a God." It says nothing about Theists.
Just a really silly discussion. You shouldn't be rejected due to ideology. Hope the courts get this issue resolved, quickly.”
Wildaboutcanadageese on Dec 7, 2013 at 13:52:51
“There is nothing in the bible that says prayer alone does anything. If humans can do something God expects them to do it, not sit on their duff asking for him to do it for them. So this is totally unbiblical to suggest christians just sit and pray and don't do anything. Pattison's foundation gives away over 6 mllion a year to charities like hospitals, the david suzuki foundation, food banks, etc. So this is misleading.”
Esjael815 on Dec 7, 2013 at 09:55:48
“That's a two-way street, my friend. I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't be rejected due to ideology (within reason, of course. Nobody should be able to force a Christian or Muslim organization to hire an Atheist to represent their brand, and vice versa). However, that means that the same right should be afforded to religious groups.”
Nat Pop on Dec 7, 2013 at 03:43:34
“It's not because of BC, it's because of Jimmy Pattison.”
Dec 6, 2013 at 21:25:46
Canada British Columbia
“What exactly about this ad denotes fundamentalism, or even a dogmatic principle? "Forget about praying. Instead, go do something about the issue before you!"
I think a billboard that emphasizes the act of doing something instead of standing by with wishful thinking is a good message. We hear stories of people praying for their God to do something about issues before us all the time... just imagine the power that could be harnassed if, instead, they rolled up their sleeves and actually accomplished something, even just a little, to meet that goal?
That's not to say those who pray don't do both, but it is to say that prayer is not the solution. That's all this billboard tells us, and frankly... anyone who is offended over the statement that prayer isn't a solution to a problem is putting too much emphasis and trust into the action to begin with.
By the way, I love how you say "true atheist". Sounds SO MUCH like theists, in that they say there are "those who act like christians" and "those who ARE christians". And what zealot is this ad fighting against? They are attacking prayer... last I checked, prayer is not the name of some person... it's a behavior. Behaviors are free to be criticized. Are you sure you aren't a Theist in disguise? That rhetoric is awfully strange to me.”
Retro Dude on Dec 6, 2013 at 22:01:36
“"those who act like christians" and "those who ARE christians".
I've noted over time anti christian agendas hidden in the guise of atheism.
I didn't single out any one religion but find it interesting you comment on christianity,
Like i said, I don't believe in God, but i do find it interesting that some feel the need to question/disprove/convert the beliefs of others. Zealots the lot of you.”
Dec 6, 2013 at 21:07:14
Canada British Columbia
“"Praying wont help, doing will."
This isn't a provoking statement, its based on studies and even supported by most religious dogma, itself. Praying as a practice has shown no sign of accomplishing what doing things can do. The effort to do things, yourself, is clearly a better way to approach an issue. That is a very important lesson to share, and a decision Atheists never have to make. Pointing that out is not an attack.
"Without God. We're all Good"
Yes. It's stating that "we", as in Atheists, do not believe in a God, yet we're all capable of being good. SO PROVOKING, SUCH AN ATTACK!!!
You've taken an over-the-top position on this article. "Radical Atheists"... pff. This billboard, in particular, denotes no "ideological" or "dogmatic" essence other than a motivation to do good WITHOUT the need of Dogma (that belief in a God would have) and the motivation to do something about an issue instead of praying for it. Just capitilizing on the effects of what non-belief can do for you. You can't complain over this reality.
You're too sensitive. Far, far too sensitive. Religion is a belief, not a person, stop acting like you're being attacked. This is about the act of praying and the capability of being good beyond the belief of a God. It's you that is filling the gaps to MAKE it an attack.”
Omishinji on Dec 7, 2013 at 01:02:24
“"Praying wont help doing will." Is a misleading statement, and can be considered false. People who pray do take active roles in their lives such as study, practice, and take risks.”
seank3 on Dec 6, 2013 at 21:19:54
“1st of all im not religious, im agnostic!
2nd im mot defending relgion, but the right to freedom of expression in both ways and freedom of conscience, its a democratic right! in our charter!..so theres no discussion about that period otherwise your in the wrong country, Canada is not a fascist state, theres not one view but plural and multiple views..
one group imposing and demonising another leads to sectarian strife, that's behind the judgement of the transit service, why do radical atheists have to resort to insult and injury pn the "other" to prove their point, and do it publicly while tell the religious keep it private, that's double standard!..why cant they practice what they preach!
im proving my point soberly, yet here you come after me for expressing myself, so obviously you have a fascist view and id say your the sensitive one, since you ignored everything I said, didn't prove your point and went on the attack, youre exactly what this ads shows, intolerance!
and that what to be denounced here!
if radical atheists think their better good for them, keep it private, or at least prove it without denouncing anyone..otherwise your waging a war on inferiority complexe, or on "bad faith"..!”
Dec 6, 2013 at 20:02:02
“If Mandela was a terrorist for wishing to reform his country in the ways he did, does that make those who chose to reform France during the French Revolution terrorists, too? Trying to put Democracy in place, instead of Monarchy or other non-representative rule.
Perhaps even America's founders were terrorists, by that stretch, for using violence to establish a country based on principles that its colonial motherland did not agree with? Something I doubt any Conservative Canadian would wish to mouth, considering how much they cozy up to the American establishment.
I became aware of this MP from his bafflingly irrational position on the bill that would seek to protect Transgender Canadians like myself, but I can see he is consistent in being this way in regards to other views.”
“Something about seeing normally aggressive predators being so kind to other species always tugs a heart string. Something about it seems so... amazing... like there is the potential for kindness everywhere in the natural world.
Whether it be a wolf pack raising a human child, or a dog raising a cat, or any number of inter-species relationship, there is something absolutly awe-inspiring in seeing even animals with lower cognitive functions, at least compared to ours, being far more socially generous than we are to our OWN species.
Obviously, environment is pending for all those involved. That doesn't take away from this, though.”
“TXanimal pointed out the point I tried to make for you. You're just making the same arguments they did. They are just as disastrously irrational now as they were then... why continue to use them? The only difference between then and now is that Gay Marriage has FAR BETTER FOOTING than Interracial ever had when it was being debated. The trends just keep growing, too.
Either way, an Apple and an Orange may be different issues... but they are both categorized as fruits at the end of the day. The same goes for Sexuality and Race. Both exist as traits of human diversity. Continue to play coy when it comes to human rights, but you'll garner no advantage in doing so in this debate. Your arguments are dated, your logic is flawed, and your time is up.”
How on earth do left wing Americans get excited over this choice? Obama failed to live up to the "change" he ran on, and became just another figurehead with an eye for staying in the center... cowering from whatever right wing attacks may come his way. I don't see this Clinton character doing much more, though she's had a few more positive situations than Obama, in my view.
Perhaps that's just an outsiders view looking in. These choices are not appealing to someone like myself who hasn't had their nations political spectrum shifted far to the right. I'd be begging someone like Elizabeth Warren to run if I lived in the States... if the right think Obama is a socialist president, just imagine the words they'd call Warren.
With that said, Democrats can definitly throw a softball next election. Republicans blew their own ship out of the water, so even someone like Clinton can slide comfortably into the White House. If I were American, I wouldn't settle with "business as usual", though.”
“So said the 70% of Americans that disapproved of Interracial marriage when the Supreme Court struck down the remaining bans. At least Gay Marriage is in a better standing of support than Interracial Marriage was... by more than 20 points.
You're a painful memory of historical abuse by those with a bias against civil liberty and fairness.”
“Some countries leaving the 21st century, some countries coming into it... next on the block is Australia next week to see if their ban sticks federally.
Emotion runs thick when you have to deal with your own country cutting down the civil rights of its own people. Only time I really felt that in Canada was the recent discussion about a federal bill to protect Trans people in the workplace, and other areas. Watching our conservatives beat this group to a pulp, reducing the proposal to a joke by unofficially deeming it the "Bathroom bill" was painful.
It's a sick reality... the world exists as black and white for more people than we realize.”
SeanMartin on Dec 3, 2013 at 17:32:53
“Our Canadian conservatives are simply pandering to their US counterparts. That is no surprise.”