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New York City Carriage Horse Falls In Manhattan, Angering Animal Rights Groups (VIDEO)

New York City Carriage Horse Falls In Manhattan, Angering Animal Rights Groups (VIDEO)

Commented Dec 7, 2011 at 01:40:16 in New York

“Just in case the less hysterical types commenting here might be interested in balancing out the spin a little:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/6o5azkt

http://preview.tinyurl.com/7npgyjl

http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/12895

http://tinyurl.com/84rtt5a

gishi914 on Dec 7, 2011 at 12:25:38

“I appreciate the sentiment of not getting "hysterical" and having facts about the incident, but the links that you provide are mostly pro-carriage horse propaganda. The NY Post is a conservative tabloid that is constantly mocking animal rights activism, the facebook page you link to is run by the carriage horse industry and Horseback Magazine is a magazine dedicated to sports that exploit horses! C'mon dude, a little critical thinking, please.
The ASPCA in NYC is generally pretty lax about enforcing animal welfare (they can't even account for the awful conditions inside the city shelters they help run).
I worked around horses for years, and I know the difference between a happy, healthy horse and unhealthy ones. These carriage horses are overworked, neglected health-wise and miserable. This is the 4th horse that collapsed in only 6 weeks - and I say collapse because while yes, horses trip all the time, they don't usually fall unless they've got a joint/general health problem. And they usually work to right themselves, not just lay there til they're forced to get up again. And these horse collapses are only part of the story - in that same time period there were at least 2 incidents of cars-carriage collisions. It's time to retire these horses to a sanctuary and ban this practice.”
huffingtonpost entry

Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 12, 2012 at 07:05:47 in Green

“What HSUS is doing is fundraising with tricky wording and/or fine print. It basically amounts to: Your money might go to Sandy victims but they don't *have* to spend it on them.

I wouldn't donate to them even if they were directly "helping" Sandy animals. Too many of the Katrina animals got dumped in overcrowded local shelters to be killed, once the news cameras were turned off.

HSUS raised $34-million "for Katrina", and spent (at most) half of it there (some reports say as little as 10%).

In my opinion, as someone who donates thousands per year to worthy causes -- for $34 million, they should have been able to do a lot better by the animals than they did.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 9, 2012 at 05:52:27 in Green

“I have finally figured you out, Terry! I don't know why it took me so long.

But I won't tell anyone. It'll be our little secret. (wink, wink)”

terry ward on Nov 9, 2012 at 06:45:17

“Wonderful!Now we're making progress.
I knew there would be something we would be able to share, regardless of what side we are on.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 9, 2012 at 05:48:12 in Green

“Yes, an oldy but goody :-)”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 9, 2012 at 05:44:55 in Green

“Wow, some of the stories from that first link about people trying to adopt from humane societies are heartbeaking, and insane. No they are not about HSUS, because HSUS doesn't operate any shelters -- but HSUS is largely responsible for all of those attitudes that lose animals good homes. This is exactly what I mean when I say that HSUS kills animals. They most assuredly do. They just "wash their hands" 1,000 times a day.”
huffingtonpost entry

Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 13:24:25 in Green

“Approaching critical mass, Terry. You can count on it.

Under 5 years, maybe as little as 2.

Mark my words. :-)

(We still haven't seen HSUS's 2011 tax returns. Will be interesting to see if there's been a drop in donations. If not this year, it'll be next year.)”

terry ward on Nov 8, 2012 at 13:57:47

“Never fear..If there is no drop in donations you can always blame it on the muppets ”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 07:13:01 in Green

“This is also why WP and the HSUS are trotting out the recycled legal complaints against Berman -- they KNOW it's bad.

They know that, because we're approaching critical mass on "the general peeps" (as Ms. Ward condescendingly calls them) figuring out that they've been lied to all these years, that if they cannot shoot ALL the messengers (too late, anyway), they're toast.

Also explains their own tin-foil hat conspiracy theories re: Cooper, Winograd and Berman. THEY don't believe it. Heck, no. But they hope the public WILL. Thing is -- the public is sane. And they have no particular desire to remain faithful to a sham of a charity.

Too bad. SO sad.”

CanAmFam on Nov 13, 2012 at 14:27:00

“LOL LOL LOL.

That's some bubble you live in Hysteria. I just spent the last several days volunteering for HSUS and spoke to thousands of people. And guess what? Not a single solitary person offering up these warped theories or criticizing their work. It was a great reminder that the hating here is simply noise, and isn't having traction with thinking, mainstream Americans.”

terry ward on Nov 8, 2012 at 11:30:32

“And yet the 'public' remains sane and continues to support the Humane Society even after all these years of caterwauling from the Humanewatch nobodies.
One would think the nobodies had better things to do than waste time trying to pass off loony fiction as fact.
Guess not.
Maybe that's the problem.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 04:37:57 in Green

“Thanks, Liz!

It is true the apologists won't hear a word.

However, the apologists are not the only ones here. It might seem like we're responding to the blind followers, but we're really educating the many lurkers who just read and never make a comment.

Combatting lies is never a waste of time. :-)”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:52:48 in Green

“Oh, short on resources are they? Wonder why.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:50:41 in Green

“It's not that hard to figure out Terry. In fact it's why we're HERE.

The general peeps still support HSUS because they have been lied to and duped into believing that the HSUS gives a rip about shelter animals and actually spends a lot of time and money saving them.

When the general peeps actually realize that the HSUS does no such thing and is instead methodically adding hundreds of dollars a month to the average family's food bill, and making sure that nobody can afford to (or even WANTS to) breed their next hunting dog or family pet, and even wants to kill such wonderful family traditions as the circus and the zoo and pony rides, the general peeps are going to rise up en masse and squash HSUS like a bug.

Won't be long now, either :-)”
huffingtonpost entry

Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:40:19 in Green

“There is all kinds of legitimate proof. Even HSUS admits they hauled in $34-million. You guys really ought to study up.”
huffingtonpost entry

Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:38:05 in Green

“OMG! WOFWOS, using the term puppy mill. I don't think I've EVER seen that before! Yowza.”

whosonfirstwhatsonsecond on Nov 8, 2012 at 06:52:22

“Contrary to how you like to portray things, many of us understand the difference between responsible breeding and what is found in large scale commercial breeding facilities and puppy mills. We can love our mutts and also understand the value of a service dog, working dog and the beauty of a show dog. ”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:35:16 in Green

“She also posts under "Little Black Dogs". And at least one other that I can't remember.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:33:33 in Green

“Oh, she IS looking forward tom something VERY postive. So am I. :-)”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:15:13 in Green

“A specific requirement is that No Kill Equation facilities not be limited admission. And you know that.

You lie so often and so easily, I do not and never will believe a word you say.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:11:32 in Green

“Liz, did you check the HSUS 990s in the document library at Humanewatch.org? They have all of them, I thought.

However -- I seem to recall that it takes a forensic accountant to parse out all the ways in which the numbers had been creatively applied. Here's a link to the tax documents. Next to each summary you will see a graphic of the 990 form. Click on that and it takes you to a PDF document of page scans:

http://humanewatch.org/index.php/documents/category/government_documents/

Liz Berq on Nov 8, 2012 at 21:22:29

“Thanks, I had found it and linked it in another post. And you're right it would take a forensic accountant to tear it apart. I do know that if I worked at the IRS and that paper came across my desk, I'd be shipping it off to the audit office for a closer look.

And before anyone says anything about it just being because it's the HSUS, you may want to take a closer look at the numbers, IMO there's just too much generalization and cross over.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 8, 2012 at 03:04:34 in Green

“It's a riot. I love it :-) It shows that -- no matter HOW many fake identities they create -- there are less than 300 people interested in what they are saying.

Nobody cares what they say, and because of OUR efforts to get the word out, all of us, folks are waking up. HSUS legislative arm took a total TROUNCING in the polls on Tuesday because folks are finally getting it. Not one item they had pending was passed. None of it. It wasn't even close.

The folks in charge know it. All those HSUS frauds making over 6 figures are stuffing assets into their pockets every night before they leave because they know the cash cow is going to quit giving milk, and soon. What they can't spirit off into overseas accounts, they're going to lose in lawsuits against them.

The end is near. :-)”

Truth not hysteria on Nov 8, 2012 at 07:13:01

“This is also why WP and the HSUS are trotting out the recycled legal complaints against Berman -- they KNOW it's bad.

They know that, because we're approaching critical mass on "the general peeps" (as Ms. Ward condescendingly calls them) figuring out that they've been lied to all these years, that if they cannot shoot ALL the messengers (too late, anyway), they're toast.

Also explains their own tin-foil hat conspiracy theories re: Cooper, Winograd and Berman. THEY don't believe it. Heck, no. But they hope the public WILL. Thing is -- the public is sane. And they have no particular desire to remain faithful to a sham of a charity.

Too bad. SO sad.”
huffingtonpost entry

Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 6, 2012 at 09:16:08 in Green

“Did they also mandate that the animals that receive shelter must be returned to their owners, not be transported thousands of miles away so their owners can't find them, and that the healthy ones must not receive the needle full of blue juice? THAT would really be something to thank them for.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 6, 2012 at 07:45:23 in Green

“Yep, that about sums it up :-)”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 6, 2012 at 07:42:03 in Green

“And again, you're measuring lives against the bottomline. How very compassionate of you.

We won't save any of them because we can't save all of them. And the hoard of money is the most important thing.

We get the point, del Jake. And you're a "true animal advocate", how, again? You sound more like the corporate finance guy. And we all know how compassionate they are.

Oh, and btw -- I don't buy your numbers nor the way you massaged them. I'll leave you to your calculator, among the dying starfish. Enjoy.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 6, 2012 at 07:33:41 in Green

“Sigh. Honest to pete, you'd think you guys were still in middle school. Contrary to your bizarre, amorphous, ever-changing and poorly defined list of what it apparently takes to qualify as a "true animal welfare/right advocate" -- a ridiculous, conflated concept to begin with since animal welfare and animal rights are separate and opposing philosophies -- the vast majority of people involved in the dog fancy are very much for saving the lives of shelter animals.

It IS entirely possible to applaud and support part of a person's beliefs and goals, without agreeing with their entire agenda.

And your insistence that everyone who breeds dogs and believes in consumer freedom is an animal-abusing boogeyman is patently ridiculous. You have to think that way, in order to justify your lives, I know. But that doesn't make your fantasy into reality.

I don't know how you function with your lines so arbitrarily and severely drawn, your thinking processes so rigid, and your concept of reality so ... unreal. It can't be easy.”

whosonfirstwhatsonsecond on Nov 6, 2012 at 12:18:19

“And Truth, contrary to your beliefs, I believe  an animals right to not suffer is not an opposing view of animal welfare but it does require a level of human responsibility lacking within the breeding industry. ”

whosonfirstwhatsonsecond on Nov 6, 2012 at 11:33:07

“Where did I even suggest every breeder was an animal abusing boogeyman. Mr. Kitchener commented on pet stores whose source of animals is usually  large scale commercial breeding facilities or puppy mills. If this association to responsible breeding concerns you what I would suggest is start spending lots of time speaking out on these irresponsible breeders. Im sure HuffPo will welcome Mr. Coopers articles.  consumerism is good but were talking about lives not toasters and to reduce the life of an animal to a product in such a way only serves to perpetuate the problems we have with society and their lack if respect and concern  for animals. and if yanking the Pedigree commercials from the Westminster show is any indication of the concern for shelter dogs you speak of, were in trouble.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 6, 2012 at 07:22:48 in Green

“I'm no tax lawyer (understatement). But the husband of a friend is (for the Feds, but not involved with this case and had not heard about it). I asked him to take a look at the article. He said it's a pretty big stretch, especially since there have been such complaints in the past and nothing ever came of them. Lots of precedent for it going nowhere. I filled him in on the fact that Bloomberg and HSUS have both been under the gun for different reasons thanks to Berman and he said, "Well, there's your sign. This is dueling complaints. Happens all the time."

A simple read of the Bloomberg article had given me the same impression. His assessment confirmed my hunch.

I have no opinion either way about outcomes. If there's been wrongdoing, whether it's on Berman's part or HSUS's, that wrongdoing needs to be addressed. The parties involved certainly know the deal -- you pay your admission and take your chances.”

Marilyn Reese on Nov 7, 2012 at 15:04:21

“I am particularly amused that one of the haters thinks that if Berman goes down No Kill will go with him. Of course, this isn't true because No Kill is not connected to Berman, yet the lie persists.”

Liz Berq on Nov 6, 2012 at 13:49:21

“Well I am a lapsed accountant (never renewed my membership for personal reasons). I can't find a decent record of the HSUS finances anywhere, from either side of the argument. I want details, I want to know exactly what was spent where, not generalizations about spending X amount on "education". I believe under US law, all charities must provide this information, so if anyone can provide me with the real information (not the HSUS fluff page) I would be very appreciative.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 5, 2012 at 19:01:50 in Green

“A group I am familiar with recently got HSUS to come "rescue" some dogs with/for them. They were assured in advance that HSUS would take care of everything, no problem. HSUS showed up with an enormous truck and the local media, did interviews and footage (just them, not the local group), and then once the cameras were gone, they took about 1 in 10 of the dogs that needed to go, and left the rescue group to deal with the rest. They had 3 days to place dozens of dogs or they'd have been killed.”
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 5, 2012 at 18:52:55 in Green

“These people were there too. First hand account. Trumps anything offered here thus far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9b3_ZMdes
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Will the HSUS Make a Killing Off Hurricane Sandy?

Commented Nov 5, 2012 at 18:47:00 in Green

“The third from last sentence in my previous comment should have read:

".... it took sooooooo long for the general public to see past the dime-store halos."”

terry ward on Nov 6, 2012 at 12:04:00

“And yet the general peeps still support the Humane Society.
Go figure.”
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