May 31, 2014 at 13:28:35
“The guy in the red shirt said "Do you know what rape culture is"? Like whatttttt? Throwing that out there because he was hitting on a girl who maybe wasn't interested. That's just completely uncalled for.”
“"Your point is, interestingly, sort of simultaneously at two ends of the extreme in being totally correct and totally wrong." I liked that haha.
Oh I know. They will jump on anything to make abortion seem dangerous and wicked. And the NRA does the same thing when they say "Alright we need armed guards in every school." Really?
The impact is huge because we let it be. The media talks about it for weeks and weeks. It's actually an incentive for further killing. You've got some twisted kid going "I will die famous. My name and face will be cover of every paper and tv. station." That's the reason Marilyn Manson didn't want to talk about the allegations that he inspired the Columbine massacre (a total falsehood). He didn't want to give the killers more attention.
Yes gun violence is bad. So is knife violence and baseball bat violence and any form of non-defensive violence. But will gun control solve the problem? That's the question No one's like "Gun violence is fine."”
“Sorry but the fact is they almost never happen. It's like saying "Oh you say terrorist attacks almost never happen. Well we just had one." So? The chance of dying in a terrorist attack is still extremely low as is the chance of dying or being in anyway injured in a mass shooting. We need to look at facts and stop the panic.
I think smart guns are very promising :)”
Davey Williams on May 27, 2014 at 14:09:02
“Your point is, interestingly, sort of simultaneously at two ends of the extreme in being totally correct and totally wrong.
You're totally correct in saying that mass shootings affect a minority of the population, and that typically we wouldn't over-regulate based on an issue affecting an extreme minority. (This is debatable - recently conservatives have been demanding ambulance docks at clinics providing abortions under the claim that it's necessary to protect the one-in-a-million patients who experience complications from the relatively safe procedure). However, sticking to mass shootings, the per capita figures are very low.
However, the impact of mass shootings is huge. It's an act of terrorism, and it inspired terror in the population. This can serve as a catalyst for voters to examine the larger issue, which is where you're totally wrong – suggesting that gun crimes affect a tiny number of citizens.
Per the FBI, the 2011 statistics show 85.77 known violent gun crimes per 100k citizens. Rough math in a country of approx. 400 million - this adds up to 343,080 reported violent gun crimes per year, resulting in approx. 31,000 deaths and 125,000 injuries.
So while mass shootings do affect a tiny fraction of the population, they consume huge news cycles and can legitimately draw people's attention toward passing legislation aimed at the larger problem - total gun violence in America, not just extreme events.”
“You know that 40-50 percent of Americans, depending on the poll, are favorable to the NRA but you think its views should just be ruled out of the conversation. That makes a lot of sense.
I never accused you of seeking to eliminate guns.
Where is there evidence that the measures you propose would reduce gun violence? Empirically speaking? And much of the gun violence is a direct byproduct of our drug war which we need to end... oh last week.”
“This was over a year old and taken right after Newtown. Support for gun control also goes up after shootings of that nature so no surprise that opposition to an anti-gun control group would increase as well. If some NRA guy stopped a mass shooter you'd see its positives spike the next day. Not a representative poll.”
JN Scott on May 27, 2014 at 13:34:59
“Not really, because the press would NEVER admit that it happened. Ask ANYONE who Joel Myrick is. I bet no one can tell you.”
“Mass shootings almost never happen and gun related crimes are down even though there are more guns in circulation. The panic needs to stop.”
Davey Williams on May 27, 2014 at 02:59:08
“I'm not sure the argument "mass shooting almost never happen" will get much traction. Seems like a statement that people might argue, you know, right after another mass shooting.
Here in California, where the crimes were committed and where we have the most restrictive gun laws, we are certainly not in a panic, but we are looking on what sort of regulations could better balance gun rights and the state's responsibility to reduce and prevent crime. We are experimenting with micro stamping and smart gun technologies - experiments which may fail, but which we think are worth examination. And our citizens support better wait list procedures by huge margins, hoping we can expand on the success of laws like the Brady bill in order to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or convicted felons, while supporting a robust gun trade and gun rights.
But when we discuss these things seriously, in response we get name-calling, cries that nothing we try will work, cynicism and...on rare occasion...offers of pie. I'm kidding on that last one...mostly we get vitriol and spite when bringing up the issue.”
“The phrase "reasonable gun control measures" is question begging. It's like saying "reasonable gun rights." Anyone can throw in the word reasonable and say everything they favor falls under it and therefore you should agree with them!
This country is not awash in gun-related violence. Gun related crimes have dropped considerably, especially homicides even though there are more guns in circulation.
What measures do you favor that are "reasonable"?”
Rusty Inman on May 27, 2014 at 09:20:32
“What question does "reasonable gun control" beg? Is it a question similar to the one begged by "reasonable gun rights?" Good. Then let's have a non-paranoid national conversation about it---which rules the NRA out.
Given the statement that follows my use of the phrase, anyone with an intact cerebral cortex would know that it does not, for me, involve "the elimination" of the right to own guns.
Sorry, but this country is "awash" in "gun-related violence" (especially relative to the rest of the industrialized, developed world) and gun rights advocates don't serve their cause very well by denying it. Like climate science deniers, you make it easy for people to simply dismiss anything you have to say when you deny the fact that we are awash in guns and gun-related violence. These are just three of several hundred sources I could supply to make my point:
Reasonable gun control measures? Expanded background checks for every purchase and every seller (including gun shows); national "no-sell" database (would flag potentially dangerous people---i.e., mental health, terrorist, felons, etc.); national gun registry (required reporting of gun thefts and transfer of gun ownership); ban on high capacity magazines (15 rounds should be plenty).
Don't worry, none of this will happen. Any reasonable effort is met with the same paranoid outcry: "They're coming to get our guns." Which precludes reasonable debate.
“All this talk about the bad bad bad NRA and how they thwart democratic will. One problem: the majority of Americans view the NRA favorably and support gun rights.”
clearasmud on May 27, 2014 at 07:39:58
“Why do Cons always make things up when they need support for their insanity?
According to the Conservative pundits there is a wealth of polling data suggesting Americans oppose “gun control” and favor “gun rights.” However, new research obtained indicates that this opposition exists only in the abstract. According to a poll conducted in May by Republican pollster Frank Luntz for the group Mayors against Illegal Guns, gun-owning Americans, including National Rifle Association (NRA) members, overwhelmingly support a raft of common-sense measures typically described as “gun control:”
“There is no relationship. Some states with very strict gun control have high crime. Some states with very "lax" gun control have very low crime. Some states with very strict gun control have very little crime and some states with very little gun control have very high crime. It's not the guns.”
quick-k on May 27, 2014 at 04:50:12
“nope it is true almost 100 percent , look at the top and bottom ten , very telling”
“That's our government in theory. In practice, it's a corporatist dystopia of special interest hegemony.
You keep insisting that. Point to a single sentence, nay a single word, in my post which supports your interpretation that that's the argument I was making.
I'm not an anarchist and neither are the vast majority of libertarians. It's comical that you say anarchism is part of the vision of small government. Do you not know what anarchism means? No government at all! Not small. Not almost non-existent but completely non existent in anyway.
Since the government has invariably been composed of politicians representing plutocrats and special interests yeah it is the problem.”
“Yes they make a choice and you think they should be prosecuted for it I suppose?
Sorry but anecdotes are not arguments. Even in the same job men can reasonably be paid more (work longer hours, take on more lucrative contracts). Even if you were really were discriminated against it does not prove anything systemic which is what so many claim.
The Blunt amendment simply said employers shouldn't be forced to fund BC. That's not an attack. Yes the personhood bill was bad and fortunately it never reached the floor.”
“You could say that about anything. Let's ban alcohol because people have gotten into cars and killed kids and if you're against doing that well say that to the faces of the parents whose kids would still be alive. It's just very poor logic which appeals to strong emotions rather than objective facts. Don't get me wrong: the agony these parents feel is unimaginable and any decent person feels for what they are going through but that does not change the fact that mass shootings are extremely rare or that gun homicides and gun related crime is down despite an increase in guns.”