03/06/2019 10:30 EST | Updated 03/07/2019 14:58 EST

Gerald Butts: Jody Wilson-Raybould Never Complained About PMO Pressure Until She Was Moved Out Of Justice Role

He said he's testifying to offer a "very different" version of events.

The Canadian Press
Gerald Butts, former principal secretary to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, appears before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights regarding the SNC Lavalin Affair, on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on March 6, 2019.

OTTAWA — Jody Wilson-Raybould never complained about improper pressure to halt the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin until Prime Minister Justin Trudeau decided to move her out of her coveted cabinet role as justice minister and attorney general, the prime minister's former principal secretary says.

Gerald Butts testified before the House of Commons justice committee Wednesday, offering a "very different" version of events from those described last week in explosive testimony from Wilson-Raybould.

Watch: Trudeau addresses the media following days of testimony. Story continues after the video.

Nobody in PMO did anything wrong: Butts

Butts delivered a 33-minute opening statement and answered more than an hour and a half of questions from MPs on the committee. He repeatedly said he believed nobody from the Prime Minister's Office had done anything wrong. Butts said several times that if Wilson-Raybould felt the meetings and phone calls and text messages on the subject were as wrong as they are alleged to have been, she had an obligation to let Trudeau know as it was happening.

"If this was wrong in the way that is alleged, why are we having conversation now and not in September or October or November?" he said.

He said Wilson-Raybould didn't raise any concerns about what was happening with the prime minister until he told her he was shuffling her out of the justice portfolio, what she told him was her "dream job."

Butts said he feels the law is very specific in not only allowing the government to continually provide Wilson-Raybould with information to inform her decision, but that she had an obligation to receive the information.

The Canadian Press
Gerald Butts, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's former principal secretary, says the PMO never tried to pressure former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould on the SNC-Lavalin case.

In fact, Butts said, he has no opinion on whether SNC-Lavalin should get a deferred-prosecution agreement to head off bribery and fraud charges, that the company is not entitled to one and that he doesn't envy Wilson-Raybould, or the current Attorney General David Lametti, having to make the decision.

Last week Wilson-Raybould told the committee she was subjected to relentless, inappropriate pressure — and even veiled threats about being removed as justice minister — to stop the trial of SNC-Lavalin on bribery and fraud charges related to contracts in Libya.

Wilson-Raybould testified that the pressure to interfere in the case came from Trudeau himself, Butts and other senior staff, the top federal public servant and Finance Minister Bill Morneau's staff — all of whom wanted her to order the director of public prosecutions to negotiate a remediation agreement with the Montreal engineering giant.

Such an agreement would have forced the company to pay stiff penalties while avoiding a criminal conviction that could financially cripple it.

PMO only asked Wilson-Raybould to consider 'second opinion': Butts

However, Butts, a longtime friend who resigned as Trudeau's most trusted adviser last month, insisted that staff in the Prime Minister's Office always respected the fact that, as attorney general, it was up to Wilson-Raybould alone to decide whether to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case.

He said he and others tried only to persuade Wilson-Raybould to seek independent legal advice on the matter, given the potential impact on the company's 9,000 employees and the fact that remediation agreements are a new, never-before-used feature in Canadian law.

"When you boil it all down, all we ever asked the attorney general to consider was a second opinion," Butts said in a lengthy written statement tabled at the committee. "When 9,000 people's jobs are at stake, it is a public policy problem of the highest order. It was our obligation to exhaustively consider options the law allows."

In one exchange with Conservative Deputy Leader Lisa Raitt, Butts suggested Wilson-Raybould needed to take more time than she had to decide what to do.

"We know what it's like to see a company or a community collapse," Butts told Raitt, who, like him, is from Cape Breton. "And can you imagine if when we were kids and the coal mines closed, the best explanation someone could give us was that someone thought about for 12 days in Ottawa. That is what concerned us."

The committee voted down a Conservative motion for Butts to be sworn in to testify, which would have meant if he lied he could have been found in contempt of parliament but also face criminal charges. The committee also refused a Conservative motion requiring Butts to produce any text messages, emails, and other communications he had with Wilson-Raybould or others in the Prime Minister's Office about SNC-Lavalin.

Watch: Jody Wilson-Raybould says she asked PM if he was interfering in SNC-Lavalin case

Butts said he had read all the relevant texts into the record.

After reviewing all the emails and text messages he received from Wilson-Raybould going back to the summer of 2013, Butts said: "There is not a single mention of this file or anyone's conduct on this file until during the cabinet shuffle."

The first he or Trudeau heard about it was when the prime minister told Wilson-Raybould's close friend and fellow cabinet minister Jane Philpott he was moving Philpott from Indigenous Services to Treasury Board, filling a gap left by Scott Brison's surprise retirement from politics, he said.

(Philpott ultimately resigned from cabinet last Monday, saying she'd lost confidence in the government's handling of the SNC-Lavalin case. Her departure followed Wilson-Raybould's resignation a month earlier.)

According to Butts, Trudeau told Philpott on Jan. 6 that he had decided to move Wilson-Raybould into the Indigenous Services slot because he wanted to "send a strong signal that the work (of reconciliation) would keep going at the same pace and that the file would have the same personal prominence for him."

Philpott told Trudeau that Wilson-Raybould, who made history as the country's first Indigenous justice minister, was "an excellent choice ... but worried she'd see it as a demotion." She was also worried that Wilson-Raybould "might wonder if her move were connected to the 'DPA' issue," a reference to deferred prosecution agreements, as remediation agreements are also called.

The Canadian Press
Gerald Butts arrives at the House of Commons justice committee to testify on the ongoing SNC-Lavalin affair.

"That was the first time I ever heard anyone suggest that this cabinet shuffle was in any way related to the SNC-Lavalin file," said Butts, who was debriefed by Trudeau immediately following his conversation with Philpott.

Trudeau was "clearly disturbed and surprised" by her allusion to the SNC-Lavalin case. Butts said he advised Trudeau "to factor into his thinking" the possibility that such an accusation might be made publicly, "however far-fetched it seemed," and that he had to "know in his heart that is not the reason he was moving" Wilson-Raybould.

"He replied that he knew that was not why he was moving her and he would not change his mind."

The next day, Trudeau called Wilson-Raybould to inform her of the impending shuffle. Butts, who was present during the conversation and took notes, said Trudeau told her Brison's departure had left the government in "a tough spot" and he needed his "best players" to "pitch in." He told her she was "one of our top people and moving her to Indigenous Services would 'show Canadians how seriously we take this,' " according to Butts.

Trudeau also suggested that Wilson-Raybould's new assignment would be temporary, just until the election in October. "He said that, 'after the election, if we are successful, everything would be fresh.' "

After a long pause, Butts said, Wilson-Raybould told Trudeau she was "a little bit shocked" because the dual justice and attorney general role was her "dream job." Indigenous Services "is not my dream job, I'm not going to lie about that," Butts quotes her as saying. Trudeau said he knew that but that it was "core to my and your mission and legacy."

Butts advised PM he couldn't keep Wilson-Raybould in Justice department

After another pause, Butts said, Wilson-Raybould said: "I feel I'm being shifted out of justice for other reasons." He said Trudeau was "taken aback" but responded that he wouldn't be doing the shuffle at all if it hadn't been for Brison's departure. That ended the conversation.

Later, however, Butts said Wilson-Raybould turned down the Indigenous Services job, telling Butts "she had spent her life opposed to the Indian Act and couldn't be in charge of the programs administered under its authority." He said he would ask Trudeau to consider alternatives but told her he had never before seen a minister refuse to move.

Butts subsequently advised Trudeau that he couldn't simply let Wilson-Raybould stay at Justice.

"If you allow a minister to veto a cabinet shuffle by refusing to move, you soon will not be able to manage cabinet ... My advice was that the prime minister should not set the precedent that a cabinet minister could refuse a new position and effectively remain in one position for the life of the government."

Trudeau ultimately moved Wilson-Raybould to Veterans Affairs in a Jan. 14 shuffle. In the days before, Butts said, he and Wilson-Raybould had numerous conversations and email exchanges that were "deeply personal in nature" in which she became more pointed in her accusation that she was being punished for refusing to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case.

The Canadian Press
Gerald Butts told the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights that the Prime Minister's Office never tried to pressure the former attorney general to help SNC-Lavalin avoid a criminal trial.

"I knew ... that trust had broken down between our office and the minister," Butts said. "I was deeply concerned by what the minister was saying. It was all a great and sad surprise to me that she could draw those sorts of conclusions about her colleagues, including myself."

In her testimony, Wilson-Raybould said she raised the SNC-Lavalin matter with Butts during a dinner on Dec. 5, telling him she'd made up her mind not to intervene and that the "barrage of people hounding me and my staff" was inappropriate. She said Butts told her she "needed to find a solution on the SNC stuff."

In Butts' version of the dinner, Wilson-Raybould asked if he had a view on the file and they talked briefly of asking a retired Supreme Court justice for advice. He has "no memory" of her asking him to reprimand staff and said at no point did she suggest anyone had done anything wrong.

He quoted from a subsequent friendly text message he received from Wilson-Raybould, in she makes no mention of SNC-Lavalin, thanks him for the dinner conversation and tells him to say hello to Trudeau. In another text a few days later, Wilson-Raybould raised two other issues they discussed over dinner, again with no mention of SNC-Lavalin.

I knew ... that trust had broken down between our office and [Wilson-Raybould].Gerald Butts

"I fully accept that two people can experience the same event differently," Butts said. "I only quote these messages so you can appreciate why I was so surprised to hear a couple of months later that the minister experienced that dinner as pressure."

Wilson-Raybould also testified that Butts and Trudeau's chief of staff, Katie Telford, "urgently summoned" her chief of staff, Jessica Prince, to a meeting on Dec. 18. According to text messages sent her from Prince, Butts told her chief of staff there was no solution to the SNC-Lavalin matter "that does not involve some interference" and Telford told her "we don't want to debate legalities anymore."

In Butts' version of events, there was nothing urgent about the meeting. Prince said Wilson-Raybould was worried about the appearance of political interference and he told her he couldn't see how seeking advice from someone like former Supreme Court chief justice Beverley McLachlin constituted political interference. He said Telford simply told Prince that "we are not lawyers and cannot debate the law."

As for Wilson-Raybould's claim that 11 different people pressured her or her staff in 10 meetings and 10 phone calls over a four-month period last fall, Butts said: "That is two meetings and two phone calls per month for the minister and her office on an issue that could cost a minimum of 9,000 Canadians their jobs.

"It did not seem to me then, and does not now, that what we did was anything other than what those 9,000 people would have every right to expect of their prime minister."