Liberal Convention 2012: Fierce Debate Over Adopting U.S.-Style Primaries

Liberal Convention 2012 Ottawa

First Posted: 01/13/12 07:05 PM ET Updated: 01/14/12 08:13 PM ET

UPDATE: The resolution to establish a supporter system passed at the Liberal convention on Saturday night.

OTTAWA — The Liberal brass' idea of adopting a U.S.-style primary system met stiff resistance from members Friday, the first official day of the party's biennial convention in Ottawa.

Liberals lined up in large numbers during two feedback sessions to speak out against the idea of establishing party supporters who could pick future leaders and riding candidates without becoming members of the Liberal Party. There is also some reluctance to embrace the idea of holding a series of regional leadership votes, similar to the primary system used in the United States.

PHOTOS: HOT TOPICS AT LIBERAL CONVENTION

Former Liberal MP Maria Minna told a packed room studying the proposed amendments to the party constitution that she opposes the idea of letting those willing to register as supporters help elect candidates.

It sounds to me like supporters would have the right to select candidates and leaders, and members would “have the right to do all the work,” she said. “This is completely unacceptable,” she added, as many Liberals nodded their heads and cheered in agreement.

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“Why would anyone pay $10 to become a member if they could have the same benefits of membership by being a supporter?” asked another Liberal.

The Liberals’ executive spent seven months developing a "roadmap to renewal," which sets out new ways of growing Liberal support, by identifying potential allies and future fundraising pools.

They’ve come up with the idea of establishing a second class of membership, registered supporters who could help guide the future of the party but wouldn’t have to pay any membership fee. These individuals would have to sign a document saying they were not members of any federal political party in Canada.

One speaker at the microphone told concerned Liberals that the party would only grow if it opened the doors to everybody and attracted non-members like himself.

But many Liberals Friday raised concerns that the supporter system could easily lead to the hijacking of their party.

‎"What would hijacking this party look like? Because I'm afraid that I might be doing it," another questioner at the microphone said. He was a new Liberal donor, but until recently wasn’t a member of the party at all, he said.

Outgoing national president Alfred Apps, the chief salesman of the plan, told Liberals they needed to have “courage.”

One delegate shot back, insisting supporters could swarm riding association meetings and elect candidates that the members might oppose but for whom they would still have to work.

Apps told the crowd that the issue already exists with the current membership framework.

Proponents of the new plan suggested $10 wouldn’t stop anyone from hijacking anything.

Former Liberal MP Bonnie Brown said she agreed with the concerns raised Friday and believes the plan is a bit too “premature” right now.

“The members get to make the cake and the supporters get to eat it, and there is some level of unfairness with that,” she told The Huffington Post.

“I haven’t figured out in my head how to get around that, but I will not be voting in favour of supporters to have the right to vote in these elections right away. I think down the road it may be feasible, but it will take a great deal of fine tuning by the next executive.”

Ken Halliday, the president of the West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast-Sea to Sky Country riding association, told HuffPost that delegates resisting the changes were not thinking strategically and were discounting the value of full membership.

Being a member of the Liberal Party allows individuals to take part in the policy process, something supporters would not be allowed to do, he noted.

Creating supporters would get new people, those who seem to have a resistance to becoming a member, inside the Liberal fold, Holliday said. Evidence also suggests that it doesn’t take long before supporters become members, he added.

“I think the supporter idea is a way we grow the Liberal Party, because if we don’t grow it, we are going to wither away,” Halliday said.

Liberal delegates will vote on the constitutional changes on Saturday. The measure will need a two-thirds majority to pass.

Like Huffington Post Canada's Ottawa Bureau Chief Althia Raj's reporter page on Facebook and follow her onTwitter for all the latest news from Parliament Hill.

althia.raj@huffingtonpost.com

With files from The Canadian Press

PHOTOS: HOT TOPICS AT LIBERAL CONVENTION

Loading Slideshow...
  • Six Hot Topics At The Liberal Convention

    It's was extreme makeover time for the Liberal Party of Canada at its <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AlthiaRaj">biennial policy convention in Ottawa</a>. Here's a half-dozen hot topics the 2,600 delegates debatedor decided.<br><br> Photo: CANADIAN PRESS/Adrian Wyld<br><br> <i>With files from CBC.</i>

  • Who's Running This Show? Part One: Bob Rae

    UPDATE: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/14/liberal-convention-2012-ottawa_n_1206071.html?ref=canada&ref=canada">Leadership speculation swirled at the Liberal convention</a>. Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty ruled out a run and his brother David said he was considering a campaign. Former cabinet minister Martin Cauchon also attracted attention by hosting a hospitality suite, encouraging some to argue he must be considering a bid for the party's top job. Former astronaut and MP Marc Garneau is also said to be considering a bid. Of course, current interim leader Bob Rae continued to be the primary focus of leadership rumours.<br><br> He's the interim leader for now, but after Wednesday's barnburner of a speech to his Parliamentary caucus, those inclined to think he also wants to be the permanent leader had fresh fuel for their burning suspicions. Will more signs emerge over the convention weekend? Will other potential candidates for the permanent leadership stand up and say something about their own ambitions?<br><br> Photo: CP

  • Who's Running This Show? Part Two: The Party President

    UPDATE: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/15/mike-crawley-liberal-convention-2012-ottawa_n_1207459.html?1326654076&ref=canada#s612012&title=_Whos_Running">Mike Crawley was elected President of the Liberal Party of Canada</a> at the biennial convention in Ottawa.<br><br> Will it be Mister President (Mike Crawley) or Madame President (Sheila Copps)? Or do the media pundits have it wrong and delegates are prepared to elect one of the other two contenders? Will the party elect someone with radical ideas for reform or someone more comfortable with the party's established path? The presidency vote could become a proxy for the bigger tug of war touching nearly every aspect of the convention -- how ready is the party to embrace change?<br><br> Photo: THE CANADIAN PRESS/ Frank Gunn

  • Who's Running This Show? Part Three: The Contest For National Policy Chair

    UPDATE: Maryanne Kampouris was elected National Policy Chair at the Liberal convention in Ottawa.<br><br> Five party activists are in the running to helm the party's quest to redefine its policy platform before the next election, including one (20-year old Zach Paikin, above) who can't personally remember not just Liberal glory days in the seventies, but any of the party's history prior to Jean Chrétien's leadership. What coherent vision will emerge from the race for the chair and from policy resolutions delegates will debate on the floor.

  • Monarchy, Marijuana ... Oh My!

    UPDATE: The Liberal party <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/15/liberal-vote-legalize-marijuana_n_1207388.html?ref=canada">voted for the resolution to legalize marijuana</a> and <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/15/liberals-stand-behind-the_n_1207370.html?ref=canada&ref=canada">against the resolution to cut ties with the monarchy.</a><br><br> Speaking of youth and policy debates ... a range of ideas are up for discussion at this convention, including some more radical ideas originating with the youth wing of the party, such as dropping the Queen as Canada's head of state in favour of a Canadian-born figurehead and the legalization and regulation of marijuana. If the delegates go for some of the more exotic policy ideas, will that capture some excitement in the eyes of the voting public?<br><br> Photo: PA

  • Quebec (isn't it always?)

    Was the <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/10/lise-st-denis-ndp-join-liberals_n_1196406.html">defection of Quebec MP Lise St-Denis from the NDP</a> a one-off, or the start of a trend? If Quebec is up-for-grabs as pollsters suggest, what strategy do the Liberals have to capitalize on that opportunity and try for a return to the party's glory days of dominating the province's politics? Can their brand be saved in Quebec?<br><br> Photo: Alamy

  • Reform, Rebuild, Renew...

    If it starts with "re-" it was probably a theme at this convention ... which might explain the giant letters displayed at the entrance to the convention centre. If the party wants a rebirth, it has to reform in order to rebuild. To do that, it may need to recycle some past hits, but the party's regeneration will require fresh ideas, too. To avoid re-igniting past tensions, Liberals will need to avoid repeating their past mistakes. Job one is restoring the party in the minds of voters as the best alternative to the governing Conservatives. And that means renewal.<br><br> Photo: Getty

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UPDATE: The resolution to establish a supporter system passed at the Liberal convention on Saturday night. OTTAWA — The Liberal brass' idea of adopting a U.S.-style primary system met stiff resis...
UPDATE: The resolution to establish a supporter system passed at the Liberal convention on Saturday night. OTTAWA — The Liberal brass' idea of adopting a U.S.-style primary system met stiff resis...
 
 
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
03:18 PM on 01/14/2012
It's all a joke anyway, Power Corp runs the liberal party.
01:59 PM on 01/14/2012
The USA has a government that is so polarized along partisan lines that it is unable to accomplish anything positive by way of legislation. Look at Obamacare! What a debacle!

The Harper dictatorship was elected in part due to their use of US style attack adds. Lets not import any more US style politics as we can plainly see where that path leads.
01:27 PM on 01/14/2012
God forbid candidates announce their intentions to the public and tell us all what they stand for before they chosen to lead.. aka democratically selected... Right now Liberal leaders and candidates are anointed in shady backroom deals made through political and monetary connections. What has this gotten the Liberals? A number of consecutive party leaders that were politically dead on arrival. Out of touch with the public and completely inept when it came to political savvy.

A candidate that is strong enough to go through a primary would have likely have the gravitas to actually be a strong voice in our national democracy. We need that now more than ever.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AlisonCarnie
I am unique ... just like everyone else
11:34 AM on 01/14/2012
One of the fabulous elements of Canada is the elections are six weeks long ...

During the twelve years I lived in Chicago, I bragged like mad about the containment of boring drivel ... my God, please don't take this envious gift away!!!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Moose Luck 99
GEOENGINEERINGWATCH DOT ORG
10:29 AM on 01/14/2012
youtube

RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 1 of 7)
09:29 AM on 01/14/2012
I say NO to Primary style voting for a leader. Think! How stupid sounding they act during their primaries. I think we would lose a lot of liberals out of our herd. I think allowing any outsiders to have a say in our leader is dangerous because we have a conservative government who could destroy that style of voting as all they know is dirty politics. PLEASE be careful on this one. I do not want our liberal party going down the drain. Mildred & Eldon Norum, Saskatoon
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Miller Time
08:48 AM on 01/14/2012
Liberals have always been notorious for not wanting to spend their own money. But are great at spending other people's. That is why they have had great difficulty in generating funds. This has been made even worse for them since they can no longer take corporate donations, donations in kind and money from the Federal Government.

As for Bonnie Brown. She represented Oakville without distinction for many years and is about as sharp as a dull knife.

It is so much fun watching them eating their own again. Bob Rae has added nothing to the Party.

Finally: when I was a Liberal, the application form clearly stated that one must NOT be a member of another Party to become a Liberal. Has that changed?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Moose Luck 99
GEOENGINEERINGWATCH DOT ORG
10:41 AM on 01/14/2012
Great points Miller Time.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
03:20 PM on 01/14/2012
Yup.
The funding isssue will finish them, they simply don't contribute, they think they should be getting the handouts.
If they changed that thinking they would no longer be liberals.

Harper plays chess.
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Ascoli
07:01 AM on 01/14/2012
The day Liberals 'go American' .......is the day I will never vote for them
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
03:21 PM on 01/14/2012
After years of fanning the flames of anti-American bigotry the liberals are now going to adopt American policies?

Brilliant!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
o3mta3o
04:16 AM on 01/14/2012
As a firm believer that the last thing Canada needs is to be more American. This disappoints... the "american style primaries" have been nothing but a source of entertainment and a circus parade of low IQ candidates that require the showmanship to distract from the obvious. don't do it!
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jamster88
03:59 AM on 01/14/2012
They are lost.

The Liberal party as we know it was born in 1960's ideology, and they're still living off the fumes of Trudeau.

The gig is up. Not even Chretien or Martin were real liberals.

It has run it's course, it's over.

We need to roll back a lot of the damage they have done, and then instill some classical values in this country. When the Cons overstep their bounds for 20 years or so, and we need a liberal renewal, I'm sure a new Trudeau will come.
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tokenblackman
10:30 AM on 01/14/2012
What damage?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Moose Luck 99
GEOENGINEERINGWATCH DOT ORG
10:32 AM on 01/14/2012
Liberal Agenda must be "LEGALIZE MARIJUANA TO INCREASE TAX REVENUES AND TOURISM!"
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
03:22 PM on 01/14/2012
How has that worked in Holland?
They seem to be rethinking that policiy.
03:48 AM on 01/14/2012
Well the argument itself is not a liberal idea because it argues that we should allow only selected group! Are they saying only these will be able to vote and elect a PM? Remember why we are now in 3rd place because they selected unelectable after another in these conventions. And the public in general is confused so what we must look at is not 10$ donation and the right of those individual donors but make US like primaries and see the number grow. Plus if people see great leaders running they will became member and donate. As we know Canadian elections are ver short compare the Americans so the Primaries will allow us to inform many people who will not have reason to vote liberal they will understand what the Liberal party stands for and see a good reason to vote liberal in the general Election. So let us say change is what liberals stand for and if not I think the Liberal Party that I joined 1992 is no more.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WernerPatels
Writer, pundit, translator
02:48 AM on 01/14/2012
$10 is indeed not enough to stop any hijacking...same thing hs been happening to Alberta Tories
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Spanky McFarlane
ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM.
01:43 AM on 01/14/2012
It beats CHICKEN BINGO!
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
03:26 PM on 01/14/2012
That is a great suggestion!
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stanschurman
11:53 PM on 01/13/2012
The idea of primaries in and of itself isn't a bad idea. It's the drawn out way it's done in the US that turns it into a circus. Have the primaries the same way in which we have elections, in one day with a maximum 30 days campaigning by the leadership hopefuls.
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Silverwolf72
Are We There Yet?
02:55 AM on 01/14/2012
Yep the 2 year primaries are a joke!
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Tyler Austin
Women = people. Corperations ≠ people.
10:35 PM on 01/13/2012
I prefer preferential ranking. Still, nearly anything is better then a closed convention.