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Hey Joyce, Get Your Outdated Views Off my Body

Posted: 05/31/2012 10:29 am

Joyce Arthur's recent piece in the Huffington Post is one that is ripe with inconsistencies and misleading statements, and it's no surprise given that she has had a love affair with the traditionally dishonest pro-abortion movement for years. Arthur, the executive director of the Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada, bemoans what she believes was a recent attack on a woman's "right" to abortion, and insists that pro-lifers are more concerned with controlling women rather than with defending the life and dignity of preborn human person.

Despite the fact that Stephen Woodworth's Motion 312 aims to look at modern scientific evidence to review when human life begins, Arthur believes that it is just part of the pro-life movement's secret plan to enslave women (note: women compose the majority of the pro-life movement), and that the personhood debate is irrelevant to the abortion question. Arthur then goes on to elaborate on many other points that we at Campaign Life Coalition Youth could not help but address.


The heart of "Choice Joyce"'s argument is her insistence that Canadian women have a right to abortion at even the ninth month of pregnancy (as Woodworth's motion seeks to correct), and are entitled to a pity party because pro-lifers, and apparently Parliament, just won't stop attacking that right. She is dismayed that 44 "anti-choice" bills and motions have been introduced into Parliament since 1987, because apparently the two million Canadians who have been aborted within the same time period just aren't enough for her.

However, as Brian Lilley explained to Choice Joyce several times in a single interview, Canadian women do not have a constitutional right to abortion. The Morgentaler Decision of 1988 struck down all previous abortion laws as unconstitutional, resulting in the total decriminalization of abortion in Canada. However, it did not grant, regulate, or guarantee any so-called "rights" to anyone. In fact, when the decision was made, the Supreme Court assumed that Parliament would pass laws regulating abortion since, you know, that's Parliament's job.

Only the radically pro-abortion Justice Bertha Wilson believed in a right to abortion, but she was in favour of limiting it to the first trimester, and was not in favour of abortion-on-demand up until birth -- which is currently the law of the land.

On the other hand, the dissenting justices insisted that "save for the provisions of the Criminal Code, permitting abortion where the life or health of the woman is at risk, no right of abortion can be found in Canadian law, custom or tradition and the Charter, including s.7, does not create such a right." Further, they noted, "there has always been a clear recognition of a public interest in the protection of the preborn and there is no evidence or indication of general acceptance of the concept of abortion at will in our society."

Clearly, the "right" to abortion that forms the basis of Choice Joyce's position is about as substantial as the unicorn, and not nearly as pleasant. She then attacks Stephen Woodworth for falling into what she calls the "fetus focus fallacy," and explains that:

"The supreme irony of Woodworth's motion is its faux concern over our Canadian law 'that decrees some human beings are not human beings,' even while the effect of the motion would be to remove 'human being' legal protections from pregnant women and give them to their fetuses instead."

I always find it interesting that pro-abortionists believe that recognizing the personhood of someone else will somehow deplete their own, and that that in itself is reason enough to deny others what is due to them. That is also the epitome of oppression.

In her hilariously fallacious explanation of the "fetus focus fallacy," Choice Joyce declares that personhood is contingent upon the capabilities of the brain, thus immediately eliminating small children and people with mental disabilities from Choice Joyce's list of acceptable persons. She then uses her outdated understanding of human biology as further proof of the preborn's supposed non-personhood:

"At various stages, fetuses have eyes on stalks, notochords (instead of spines), fish-like gills, tails, downy fur, distorted torsos, spindly legs, giant heads, and alien-looking faces. In fact, an early human fetus is practically indistinguishable in appearance from a dog or pig fetus."

It really sounds like she's is stuck in the 1800s. I guess she hasn't heard yet, but Haeckel's drawings were a fraud! Besides, that description also fits many people who have gone, and are going through the ever-awkward stages of puberty. I'm still trying to forget the days of spindly legs, a distorted torso, and an alien looking-face, but I'm pretty sure that even though I was an unattractive and unpleasant pre-teen, I was still a person. What happened to beauty being in the eyes of the beholder, anyway?

Later in the article, Choice Joyce drops this little racist gem:

"Surely, no all-party committee would recommend a backbencher's motion that, for example, wanted to examine whether black people should go back to Africa, or whether Muslims should have freedom of religion."

I think it's fair to say that racial equality is not morally equivalent to being allowed to dismember a 28-week-old preborn child, for no other reason than that the mother no longer wants it, is pretty disgusting. She then closes by informing readers that abortion is part of good mothering, even though abortion by the nature of the act is the complete and total rejection of the child by its mother, making it the anti-thesis of good mothering.

What Choice Joyce and her cronies need to understand is that their lies simply aren't cutting it in Canada anymore. Instead of formulating a sound argument, they attack the legitimacy of the debate. However, the debate is on, and isn't going away until the right to life for all Canadians is acknowledged and ensured.

Even though Joyce Arthur et al. seem to think they have a deeper understanding of womanhood than normal women do, they should at least try to comprehend that women are not stupid, that they have a right to know the truth about abortion, and that they should be free to make up their own minds about what is being discussed in Motion 312.

Originally posted on Life Site News.

 
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Joyce Arthur's recent piece in the Huffington Post is one that is ripe with inconsistencies and misleading statements, and it's no surprise given that she has had a love affair with the traditionally ...
Joyce Arthur's recent piece in the Huffington Post is one that is ripe with inconsistencies and misleading statements, and it's no surprise given that she has had a love affair with the traditionally ...
 
 
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11:37 AM on 06/05/2012
Did I really just read "pity party" in a serious editorial? Wow, if only more commentators served their opinions with such awesome sauce, political discourse would be epic win!

The author also deserves recognition for realizing that "Joyce" rhymes with "choice." "Choice Joyce" is so wonderfully clever that it would've been a shame not to use it as many times as possible.

I was also under the impression that the fact that all mammalian fetuses resemble each other in the earliest stages of development had nothing to do with the "phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny" theory (i.e. Haeckel's drawings). But clearly the author's reading comprehension skills are better than mine, and I'm thankful she noticed something Joyce Arthur didn't actually say.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
xraygrrl
Incorrigible. Please do not incorrige :P
12:50 AM on 06/04/2012
Sorry Cassie, but this article was a painful read.
It is full of strawmen and false generalizations. You won't win anyone over to your way of thinking by publishing this sort of shrill clap trap.
Maybe in your circles it is acceptable to use cutsie but condescending nicknames like "Choice Joyce", but it just reminds me of Bill O' Reilly calling a doctor in Kansas "Tiller the Killer" until eventually one of your supporters killed this doctor.
05:37 PM on 06/02/2012
The beauty of choice is that you may choose! If you feel morally or spiritually or religiously or socially or politically opposed to abortions, you may choose to not have one. But because you would choose not to, does that give you the right to dictate that others may not do the same? I don't believe so.
I am saddened that, to prove your point, you felt you must lower yourself to the level of name calling and unpleasant and uncivil diction. Just as I am saddened that some (but not all) of my fellow commentors have resorted to the same level. Discourse works best if every party agrees to respect the views of the other, and I feel that you take a less than respectful position towards Joyce Arthur and others who believe that women should be able to choose.
I can only hope that being exposed to more views, especially ones expressed in a civil and polite manner, will change your mind. If not, that's ok; as I said, you are entitled to your own views and opinions. In that case, I can only hope you learn to express them more respectfully.
05:37 PM on 06/02/2012
I recognize that you have a right to your own opinions and beliefs but, in true Canadian fashion, I would like politely disagree with you.
Much of your argument centres around Arthur claiming that women have a right to abortions, which is not true. In the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there is nothing written about abortions.
However, section seven states "everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
Security of person deals with every persons right to bodily autonomy, meaning that all people may make medical decisions for themselves, by themselves, and have no obligation to share their decisions with anyone.
This means that women have the right to choose.
As one commentor pointed out, women have other choices than abortions, including adoption and keeping the baby which, in the commentor's opinion, negates the need for abortion as a choice. But I ask, is it morally fair and just to allow a person to choose while limiting their options? Is the integrity of such an important choice preserved if we force a woman to choose between what she sees at the lesser of two evils? I don't believe so. Which is why I believe that every woman must be given the opportunity to choose from all possible options- by not limiting the choices to only those that do not offended a portion of the population.
05:47 PM on 06/01/2012
If safe and legal abortion was not an option for me when I needed it I would have opted for an unsafe, illegal abortion. I would have risked my life to do it, just like women without choice do around the world. For me, my abortion was a real-life unicorn. A god-sent life saver.
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Doctor Nick
Hi, everybody!
05:09 PM on 06/01/2012
The real issue in the abortion debate is not when life begins, but that if many women (for whatever reason) view abortion as a viable option, do we as a society criminalize the actions of those women and those who choose to assist them? There have always been abortions, and there always will be. All criminalization does is make things more difficult and possibly more dangerous. This may serve to reduce the number of women who get abortions (which is the desired goal of the pro-life movement) rather than simply punishing/taxing them, but it is far from obvious that it is the most effective way to do so.

In particular, I refer you to the evidence (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/01/chart-day-abortion-rates-around-world) that abortion rates around the world do not depend much on how liberal/criminalized is abortion. Western Europe has the lowest rate and Eastern Europe the highest rate, but they both have very liberal laws.

I think there is common ground between pro-lifers and pro-choicers in the sense that we would all prefer to reduce the number of abortions through means other than criminalization, so it is a shame that we do not pursue these options more vigorously. After all, if we could reduce North American abortion rates to Western European ones that would be over a 50% reduction without any criminalization.
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Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
03:41 PM on 06/01/2012
let me guess, Cassie got told by someone form Campaign Life Coalition Youth to write an article that would look good on the anti-abortionists, however this time they said "umm Cassie. please don't mention god.. you can use the same arguments, or not even argue at all just rant! but people tend to think we are crazy when we mentioned our invisible sky god.. I cant figure out why though..."

and the Life coalition went on being crazy and everyone ignored them because they are fringe religious fanatics. and we all lived happily ever after..
04:29 PM on 06/01/2012
Okay.. well... feel free to check out the website... www.campaignlifecoalition.com and please let me know if any of their pro-life arguments are religious.

Thanks.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
12:12 PM on 06/02/2012
as soon as it said "pro family" there is no need to read more. "pro-family" is almost synonymous with "anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-rights". we have seen through your guise.. only a handful of crazies like you support this. the debate is over argueing here gives you some slight legitimacy so i will stop. becuase you deserve none
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arkymorgan
Nobody knows the trouble I've been...
01:20 PM on 06/01/2012
One of the things that infuriates the anti-choice movement is that no matter how big a platform is offered to them, no matter how loudly they scream, the vast majority of people simply accept the ideas that a) women are people and b) people have the inherent right to dispose of their bodies as they choose.

And they vote accordingly.

The anti-choice movement will NEVER get the majority to agree with them. In fact, I don't think they really want to.

I think they have built a worldview where they are the ''victims'' and if anyone is having a ''pity party'', it's the anti-choice movement, who are seeing their pinprick-sized window of opportunity disappear.

Relax. We weren't going back to the Middle Ages, ever. No matter what your preacher told you.
04:30 PM on 06/01/2012
Well.. the polls seem to disagree with you.. the majority of people want to see some type of restriction on abortion.. which is only just the beginning.

If pro-aborts are not worried at all that legislation like this will never pass.. why did Joyce bother writing her original article in the first place? What a waste of time!
08:53 PM on 06/01/2012
I guess you haven't been following the polls lately. Over 50% of the U.S. identify themselves as pro-life. Worse yet for the pro-choicers is that is is young people who have formed their position based on clearer scientific evidence that shows when life begins. Gone are the days when leaders in the pro-choice movement could say it is only a blob with any credibility. Not only does the pro-life movement believe women are people, they believe that all human beings are equal. So we oppose abortion based on sex-selection which is contrary to Planned Parenthood and their political tools. If a gay gene is ever identified there will be no protection coming from the pro-choice movement. If anyone disagrees with that please articulate a philosophy that encompasses a women's right to choose and denying that right if she decides she does not want a gay child.
01:19 PM on 06/01/2012
There is no such thing as a "pro-abortionist" movement in Canada, simply a pro-choice movement. The language and juvenile attitude you display throughout your blog indicates that you are neither open nor prepared for an adult discussion on the subject. One of the many things to be proud of as a Canadian is our stance on the right to choose. In no way should we impose our beliefs on someone else in this manner.
04:32 PM on 06/01/2012
Clearly not all choices are equal.

If your "choice" means disembowelling, dismembering and decapitating a baby.. than yes.. I am anti-choice.

If choice means having more than one option.. than I am pro-choice. You can have the baby, or give the baby up for adoption. The only "choice" pro-lifers disagree is the one that ends up with a dead baby and an emotionally and physically wounded woman.
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Ian Llangan
Your Invisible Sky Friend Is Morally Abhorrent
06:05 PM on 06/01/2012
By do no means do all, or even most, or even many, women necessarily end up "emotionally and physically wounded". And try as you might you cannot find sources to back up this assertion. The fact is that when abortion is available on a safe (i.e. legal medically-based) basis, women go back to their lives physically unscathed and relieved. Again, if they have any regrets about their choice at least it was theirs to make and only the greatest of scorn can be heaped upon anyone who think that a woman makes this choice lightly or without careful deliberation of its implications. CassieJenny the bottom line is that other women's bodies are not yours to control and never will be, and that other women's choices are not yours to make, and never will be. So please give up and go do some REAL good that involves mediating some of the tremendous evils the Catholic Church has perpetrated upon Canadians.
08:09 AM on 06/01/2012
There is NO new scientific evidence on when life begins. Life is a continuous process that's been evolving for billions of years. No developmental marker could, even theoretically, be used to indicate the beginning of life. It's nonsense.
09:22 AM on 06/01/2012
So... you're saying we will never know when life begins... therefore.. your conclusion is that since we don't know... it should just be a free-for-all? According to you- if someone doesn't think another person is human- they could shoot them in the head and that would be completely okay to you.

If we don't know when life begins... wouldn't that make abortion even worse?
If you wanted to demolish a building, would you not proceed with the demolition until you were absolutely 100% certain that no one remained in the building? Should not kill the preborn until we are 100% certain that doing so does not abort a life....?
09:02 AM on 06/02/2012
No, the question of when a tiissue becomes an individual human being is a complex moral and philosophical issue. Although technology can increase the survival rate for premature births, there in no scientific discovery that can identify the 'beginning of life'. How you go from there to saying that I want to shoot someone in the head escapes me.
08:58 PM on 06/01/2012
too funny! If this doesn't offer insight into the intellectual capacity of pro-choicers I don't know what does. Keep your eyes closed and maybe nobody will notice.
09:05 AM on 06/02/2012
Okay Mr intellectual, please cite the scientific research papers that identify the beginning of life.
07:42 AM on 06/01/2012
Awesome job Cassie.... I hope you weren't expecting anything less in the comments section.. it's so typical and outdated insults... "You're judgmental", "you're hypocritical", "you're pro-war" (?), "you write like an 8th- grade (my personal favourite)... like.. .are these ad hominem attacks the only thing the pro-abortion movement has left?

I also enjoy the people who say they are open to debate... if that were the case... they would be calling and visiting their MP asking them to vote in favour of Motion 312.... I wonder if any of them have done that yet.... hmmmm....

I hope the Huff posts more of your stuff... you're quite witty and I enjoy your stuff...keep it up!
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Kristopher Leang
training to take down the elite
08:19 AM on 06/01/2012
No we prefer logic and common sense. have you heard this one?? "we dont believe in your madeup sky god, you cant force someone to follow what your imaginary friend says is the law"

that sums up everyones argument right there. this isnt an open debate, its one religious fanatical group (much like the Taliban to a lesser degree) trying to enforce their crazy religious doctrine on others..
09:16 AM on 06/01/2012
LOL... did you seriously just compare pro-lifers to the Taliban? Wow......

Where did Cassie once bring up religion or God....I must have missed that part.
12:11 PM on 06/01/2012
As the other commenter said, this article did not mention anything about God. You don't have to be religious to be pro-life (and I just want to add that "pro-life" does not mean "anti-choice").

The pro-life movement is simply defending this logical syllogism:
1)Human beings have rights (including the right to life).
2)Human babies, born and unborn, are human beings.
3)Therefore, human babies, born and unborn, have rights (including the right to life).

It follows logically that a human is a human at any age. How can we judge by age saying rights depend on whether: you are 20 years old, 2 years old, 1 day old, 1 minute after being born, 1 minute before being born, 2 months before being born etc...?

This equality of rights is the simple truth the pro-life position strives to uphold.
07:38 AM on 06/01/2012
Good job Cassie... the comments on this article are hilarious- and don't address any of your points whatsoever. "You write like an 8th grader", "you're judgmental", "you're pro-war and capital punishment.. (?), it's not pro-abortion, it's pro-choice.. blah blah blah... seriously... ? These ad hominem attacks are so pointless.. I wonder why they even take the time..

In so far as Motion 312- it's funny.. some of the comments are "I am open to debate"....if that were the case- you would ask your MP to vote in favour of Motion 312... I wonder how many have actually done that.... hmmm.....

Can't wait to read more stuff from you... it's most enjoyable.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
canobserv
09:30 AM on 06/01/2012
yes.....it's all SO funny eh?......I am pro-choice.....and no I am NOT open to "debate"
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littlestar
What is life without dessert?
01:21 PM on 06/01/2012
I have a feeling Jennfromtheblack1980 is actually the writer of this article. Or at least knows her personally.
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Ian Llangan
Your Invisible Sky Friend Is Morally Abhorrent
02:44 PM on 06/01/2012
Agreed. I call $okk poopet.
jimbo57
ni dieu ni maitre
04:47 AM on 06/01/2012
Abortions are not wonderful. Any time a woman chooses to terminate a pregnancy, for whatever reason, is tragic. It is, however, HER tragedy. For you to stick your nose into what is perhaps the most personal of personal business is the height of arrogance. Concentrate on living your own life and making your own choices.
09:25 AM on 06/01/2012
You dislike women and children THAT much, that you would want to stand by and watch them go through such a horrible thing and do nothing about it?

If you were walking down the street and saw a man beating his two year old on the front lawn.. would you keep on walking and say it's not your problem or would you do something to stop the injustice?

Not to mention that abortion is covered by our tax dollars... if we have to pay for it... we get a say in it.
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arkymorgan
Nobody knows the trouble I've been...
12:57 PM on 06/01/2012
It is, I think, disingenuous (but all too typical) that you interpret the stance that men and women who support a woman's right to choose when/if she has her children as ''disliking women and children''.

For all you know, jimbo57 could be the loving father of several children, committed to giving them, and other people's children, the best possible start in life. And for all I know, you are the kind of person who enjoys that delicate frisson of eating a good meal while starving beggars look on in envy.

Setting up false equivalencies, as you have done above, does nothing to convince the majority of Canadians that women have the inherent right to determine what their own bodies are used for.
01:16 PM on 06/01/2012
Your comparison is neither accurate nor appropriate - a fetus is not a 2 year old child. Additionally, your comment "...if we have to pay for it... we get a say in it." is silly. If this were the case, then any and every medical procedure in the country would be under the same scrutiny.
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Ian Llangan
Your Invisible Sky Friend Is Morally Abhorrent
02:20 AM on 06/01/2012
What sinister force is at work at Huffpost that the floor is now open to contributions from children with no real world experience, in aid of a debate we are not even having in this country? Why is a spokesbot for the non-tax-paying Catholic Church trying to insert that cult's view into the public discourse free of charge?

Sorry Cassie but you are way out of your tepid depth on this issue. Women in this country make the decision to abort or not quite independently, strictly in private, & only in consultation only with their doctor, their conscience/god/inserted_spiritual_term_of_choice & with anyone else only as they see fit. This decision is NOT your call, nor is it anyone else's. We fought and won two world wars to avoid your kind of totalitarian dictatorship. You cannot drag us backward to your biblical stone age.

Abortion is legal & private in Canada & will remain that way. Go find a better cause to support that has an actual moral force of good behind it, such as convincing the evil Roman Catholic school boards in Ontario to drop their ridiculous bigotry against gay students, or assisting in counselling services for the thousands of former pupils irrevocably damaged by the physical & sexual abuse of Roman Catholic priests/nuns in residential schools & parishes across Canada. Better yet, campaign to make the Roman Catholic Church pay income taxes & open its books to public scrutiny. Those would be actual GOOD causes.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
canobserv
08:56 AM on 06/01/2012
F&F.....
09:26 AM on 06/01/2012
I love how a pro-life discussion turns into anti-religious vitriol. Seriously...
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Ian Llangan
Your Invisible Sky Friend Is Morally Abhorrent
01:11 PM on 06/01/2012
It was a hateful anti-choice screed sent in as a Catholic trojan horse, being quite properly shouted down. You need to sharpen your ideological identification skills.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
arkymorgan
Nobody knows the trouble I've been...
01:14 PM on 06/01/2012
Perhaps you might stop and think about why this is.

There is ample evidence in the form of 1) the literature that various anti-choice groups give out that uses numerous biblical and doctrinal ''reasons'' to oppose abortion and 2) various religious leaders are constantly in the news condemning abortion on religious grounds.

Since these leaders preach publicly regarding their church's stance AND have the audacity to instruct their followers on how to vote regarding this issue, the anti-choice movement must accept that having allied themselves with the religious groups, they are unified with them, and pay that penalty.

Religious animosity towards abortion, birth control, single mothers and equal rights under the law for LGBT persons has been extremely vocal - I don't hear the non-religious anti-choice spokespeople out there disavowing these stances.

You are judged by the company you keep.
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YrthWyndAndFyre
01:15 AM on 06/01/2012
Only two points, Ms. Farrell.

1) Nature always sides with the mother. If a pregnant female of any species is at risk and aborting the foetus will alleviate that risk, Nature always goes with the abortion. It's only natural. An adult female of child-bearing age is a considerably better survival bet than a newborn infant with or without a surviving mother. Forcing a female to carry to term and give birth even when it jeopardizes the female's health, on the other hand - that is distinctly unnatural and only humans have ever tried it.

2) .You speak of the 'traditionally dishonest pro-abortion movement' when there has never actually *been* a pro-abortion movement - just a pro-choice movement that insists that a woman (yes, you too) has the right to dictate what happens to her own body - including the right to carry to term even if your health is in jeopardy. Yet your 'movement' actually *changed* it's name from 'anti-abortion' to 'pro-life' when they realized that the name 'anti-abortion' appeared politically incorrect and has never cared about life at all. Once the question of abortion is off the table, your movement couldn't care less if mother and child *both* die, as long as no abortion was involved. So who's *really* 'traditionally dishonest'?
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CarlyQ
Without followers, evil cannot spread.
10:41 AM on 06/01/2012
Excellent points! You've succinctly stated what I lacked the words to express.