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Canada's Growth Owes no Debt To Socialism

Posted: 07/17/2012 2:46 pm

Success has many fathers, the saying goes. If only there was a paternity test to sort out the claimants of credit for the Canadian economy.

Canadian author Stephen Marche is the latest to weigh in, with a short opinion piece published on Bloomberg.com. Marche argued two points: first, that Canadian household net worth had surpassed U.S. household net worth; and second, that this was due to Canada's uniquely "hardheaded socialism" -- a combination of fiscal discipline in the management of a magnanimous social welfare state.

Reihan Salam questioned the household income claim in a piece for National Review Online, noting that U.S. household net worth fell largely due to the housing crisis and Canada failed to fall rather than gain ground. Clive Crook agreed in a piece for The Atlantic.com and suggested that better regulated banks and a more conservative mortgage market were more important than socialist policies.

Marche's "hardheaded socialism" thesis is a contrarian interpretation of Canadian fiscal policy rather than banking or financial market regulation, and as such, it fits with other similar analyses such as Fred Barnes' April 2011 article in National Affairs which credited the Liberal Party of Canada -- which led in the establishment of Canada's social welfare programs -- for taking responsibility for their reform. Chris Edwards at the CATO Institute contends that Canadian fiscal reform resulted in cuts to the size of government.

All this may sound like the typical circular firing squad of academic debate. But for Americans, it matters tremendously. Canada's example is important in the context of an American debate about the role and financing of government in society that is marked by sharp polarization along ideological lines. The average voter looks at the theoretical claims of both sides, and craves the practical example of a country that is doing well as proof that solutions are possible.

Marche offers the beguiling hope that if Washington D.C. could act as a better steward of taxpayers' money, the social welfare system in the United States could be saved, and growth would return in the form of rising household net worth. In short, that the United States can have greater socialism if its leaders will just be more hardheaded about it.

This is a false hope. Canada's fiscal hardheadedness and pro-growth economic policies, along with its tremendous resource wealth, are the real examples that the United States can and should follow (the United States has great resource wealth too, thankfully). Then perhaps, like Canada, we can better afford some socialist policies that we have now, or that voters may desire in the future.

Socialism, based on economic redistribution, requires growth so that there is money to redistribute, just as philanthropy relies on prosperity.

Canada was hardheaded in promoting growth, not in simply managing redistribution, and this is why it has enjoyed better results than most countries since the 2008 recession began.

Socialism is not the father of Canada's success, but its progeny.

 
 
 

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Success has many fathers, the saying goes. If only there was a paternity test to sort out the claimants of credit for the Canadian economy. Canadian author Stephen Marche is the latest to weigh in, w...
Success has many fathers, the saying goes. If only there was a paternity test to sort out the claimants of credit for the Canadian economy. Canadian author Stephen Marche is the latest to weigh in, w...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
10:02 AM on 07/23/2012
Who is this guy?!? The "Socialism" that these Americans refer to is what we in Canada simply call a responsible Government! This Quote:
"Canada's fiscal hardheadedness and pro-growth economic policies, along with its tremendous resource wealth, are the real examples that the United States can and should follow" -- Could not be more wrong.
Talk of "pro-growth" policies smacks of Reaganomics and pseudo-free market rhetoric. Canada indeed took hard positions in the late 90s and made cuts where they had to, while also HEAVILY regulating the banks and preventing mergers that would have further centralized our banking industry.

"Pro-Growth" is just Neo-Con speak for Reaganomics and it's not the way Canada weathered the storm, in fact it is now what our PM is embracing and watching our economy slide down the toilet with his crappy economic policy.... Subsidies for the billionaires and less health-care for Immigrants!! That's the CON Way!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Leader Newworldparty
01:53 PM on 07/21/2012
Every country in history that has tried socialism, has succeeded in bringing prosperity to a portion of their citizens in the short run. Without fail, every one of these countries have become poorer in the long run. This track record is unbroken in earth's history.

Read:
Socialism vs Capitalism
http://www.newworldparty.org/2011/08/socialism-versus-capitalism.html

Both American and Canadian economies and wealth are fake, because they have been fuelled by debt.

Americans are poorer now because their housing bubble collapsed. Canadians are richer because their housing bubble has surpassed the peak of the American bubble.

There are many myths in society:
- World is flat
- Mermaids exist
- House prices go up forever

Read:
Bubbles - Extreme Maker and Breaker of Wealth
http://www.newworldparty.org/2011/11/bubbles-extreme-maker-and-breaker-of.html
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ProgressiveCDN
A Progressive Moderate
10:03 AM on 07/23/2012
but then there's Stalin, Lenin & Hitler... I really don't get this completely unnecessary antagonism between Capitalism and a robust government... Why be "socialism"?? Canada is historically a pragmatic and responsible state. That is all.
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sonoffestus
Got smart & got out!
12:01 AM on 07/19/2012
By another name......."Social Capitalism".
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kenl77
09:27 PM on 07/18/2012
"Socialism, based on economic redistribution, requires growth so that there is money to redistribute, just as philanthropy relies on prosperity."

Ah! Here it is - the absolute refutation of socialism.
There's not enough money for socialism to work.

Just as there's not enough food in the world - so some must starve
There's not enough medicine, not enough doctors and nurses, not enough clean water, clean air or fertile soil - hence a third world of abject degradation.

There's just not enough - and but for the rich, the Buffetts and the Gates, there wouldn't be anything at all!

Only greed, exploitation and the frenetic consumption of worthless crap, that is, only through capitalism can anyone survive in this world of universal scarcity.

Too bad it's all a lie.
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11:20 AM on 07/19/2012
way too nuanced tone for these forums! good post though.
08:51 PM on 07/18/2012
Incidentally, centralized socialism can be better or worse then capitalism, depending on who is in power. However, DEcentralized socialism is far superior to any of the current existing alternatives. Of course, nobody talks about decentralized socialism, because it empowers the people and renders the elite completely impotent.
08:44 PM on 07/18/2012
There's a very critical problem with this article, and it shows right in the title itself.

"Canada's Growth Owes no Debt To Socialism"

...? Which growth!? Where's the growth? The economic forecast is getting worse every year - not better. This article has no basis on actual facts.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
contest d
04:08 PM on 07/18/2012
"Socialism, based on economic redistribution, requires growth so that there is money to redistribute, just as philanthropy relies on prosperity."

Of course a neo-con author/agenda would still expect a disproportionate amount of 'growth' to trickle up to the job creators, so they could use their 'worked for' prosperity to altruistically manage social output along culturally conservative lines (defined by moral individualism which typically result in intolerance and paranoia).
03:44 PM on 07/18/2012
This piece is all concept, no facts. What about the fact that those with higher income have the highest saving rate, so that when you redistribute wealth through social welfare programs you are causing more of the money earned in the population to be spent? Or the fact that our social welfare programs in Canada (such as socialized medicine, highly subsidized higher education, high quality public education from kindergarten) make it easier for those with lower income to move up the economic ladder, thereby increasing economic productivity and, ultimately, overall wealth? It's a preposterous over-simplification to take a known outcome (higher average wealth) and simply declare- without facts- that a major difference between the U.S. and Canada played no part in that outcome.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
contest d
03:42 PM on 07/18/2012
"Canadian household net worth had surpassed U.S. household net worth; and second, that this was due to Canada's uniquely 'hardheaded socialism"....

Actually, only 40-60% of N. America's wealth comes from 'hard work', technological progress, and capital re-investment (and hardheaded socialism), the remaining 40-60% still comes from dispossession (of other's opportunity, via wealth-creation led public policy).

Free trade, foreign investment and the privatization ethos, leveraged by (a fetishized) investment-risk culture just makes it seem like we're 'working for our money'.

Socialist policies (which is still better than the free-market blather that has given 20% of Canadians 70% of the nation's wealth - statscan) will not settle the unsustainable wealth-hoarding that defines Western growth policies, no matter how much more stable Canada appears next to the US this year.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
baizhongtang
Reality has an anti-neoliberal agenda
05:44 PM on 07/18/2012
Well said. Love the "fetishized investment-risk culture" thing, spot on!
03:35 PM on 07/18/2012
"Socialism, based on economic redistribution, requires growth so that there is money to redistribute, just as philanthropy relies on prosperity."

This is ridiculous. First, it's logically false. To redistribute money only requires that there be money to redistribute. We can trade dollar bills forever if we have even just one. I have it. Now you have it. Done.

What you're trying to imply is that socialism is unique in that it needs growth to thrive. But that seems just as true as pure free-market capitalism. Why is there any distinction made?

This just seems a case of where an author likes the sound of his own voice.
01:21 PM on 07/18/2012
This would surprise most Canadians since the US is seen as a destination for high value jobs. But the flip side is that 25% of the US work force is considered 'low wage' while that's just above 20% for Canada (and also the UK). Add to that increased inequality (while Canada has the highest rate of growth in inequality, it would take over a decade to reach present US levels), reduced social mobility (mostly from an increase in downward mobility as well as slowed upward mobility) and discovery of more damage from the Great Recession than previously thought (e.g., NAR revising down house sales figures from the last three years). Canada's mid-paced midwestern-style economy has traditionally been viewed as the tortoise versus the American hare, but the tortoise looks good when the hare stumbles.

BTW for unemployment figures, the Bureau of Labor Statistics re-crunches other countries' data using its own formula and for Canada, its BLS unemployment would be 6.3%!

The parts of the US economy that are working, are working very, very, very well. The problem is that a big chunk of it is still offline.
05:51 PM on 07/18/2012
Agreed but US wages do not tell the whole story a person living in New York would have much lower disposable income than a person living in Toronto or Manchester UK given UK and Canadian tax is about 43% up a little under the Conservative government in the UK.
The New Yorker has more tax to pay by the time they pay Federal State Local Police, Fire, School,etc and their own private Health care it turns out New York City is one of the highest taxed in the world and they still have socialized transport through their Port Authority which runs all of NYC transport network. All is not clear in how the US is run for example many States still have socialized liquor control boards just like Canada try buying a take away drink in many New England states after 9 oclock.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Donnerskinde
I used to be a people person,till people ruined it
12:25 PM on 07/18/2012
Socialism has very little to do with the redistributing wealth and everything to do with regulating and controling private industry. That is why socialism is the father of canadian sucess. This authors inability to define socialism correctly undermines the validity of his arguments. Socialism is why we have the banking regualtions and strong directed economy that we have. Social programs are completely seperate from that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stewart Goss
Evil requires the sanction of the victim -Ayn Rand
01:13 PM on 07/18/2012
Regulating and "controlling" (whatever that means) has nothing to do with wealth creation. Directed economies are far less efficient than free ones as consumers and producers operate on misinformation created by artificial pricing.

A good example of how an unregulated economy thrives is the USA during the latter part of the 18th and most of the 19th century. A country populated mostly by people with nothing but the shirts on their backs rises to become a world superpower in short order. The poor today in the U.S. live a life of luxury compared to the poor in 1910.

No offense but while there are things I admire about Canada (easier to business with, laudable cutbacks on govt. spending, etc.) where is the Canadian counterpart to Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Ford and all those other American companies that are innovating for our future?

I guess my message is that highly regulated/controlled economies stagnate over time but the effect is masked by time and the fact that you benefit from more enterprising countries that allow their citizens to freely trade amongst each other unburdended by misguided govt. oversight.

We have had a 100 years of govt. regulation of our economy. It brought us inflation (non-existent from 1780 to 1913), much deeper recessions and innumerable banking collapses. If it works so well why it is always a work in progress?
06:11 PM on 07/18/2012
I think your blinkers are set a little tight. Most Agrarian societies such as yours was for the first couple of centuries can manage with very little Government or regulation.
But most of your success occurred during the Twentieth century. Henry Ford would be classed as a socialist by yourself Gates is no raving tea party sort.
Canada has a different banking system much less bankruptcy friendly so Dell would have ceased to exist long ago as would have Ford GM and Navistar American Airlines etc the list would gone for a very long time. GOVERNMENT BAILOUTS ARE SOCIALISM FOR CORPORATIONS as is Chapter 11.
You also benefited greatly from two massive wars that if the British had not entered would likely have left still you a bunch of hick farmers.
Also are your advocating going back to a whole sub strata of your society still be enslaved or at best segregated.
Modern unregulated economies are paragon's of success Russia, Somalia and of course the Bush the Second experiment with trickle down economics that one worked especially well for you guys
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Donnerskinde
I used to be a people person,till people ruined it
12:08 PM on 07/19/2012
I'd reply to you some more but orkney has really summed it up. In addition though the fact is canada is at the cutting edge of several fields including communications and miniturization.
Your "unregulated" american system has crashed and burned while those of us with a more balanced approach weathered the recession far better.
The thriving of the us is related to the world wars, and just like any country in a major conflict the artificial government spending on military has a major impact on reenergizing ones economy. Oh and apparently you forgot the whole robber baron thing, with just a small percentage controlling all the wealth, kind of like now.
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albertarick
These are questions for wise men with skinny arms
11:23 AM on 07/18/2012
Could it be that in Canada organized financial crime may not have been quite as normalized as in the US? The idea that we need to emulate the corporate welfare state, as we seem to be doing now, is anethema to success as a nation.
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Old Glenridge
in the Great White North
09:58 AM on 07/18/2012
Amazing how he completely forgot to mention that Canadians are not afraid to raise taxes when we need to balance the budget. He also forgot to mention we do not try and bankrupt University grads with crippling debt. Nor did he mention that our political system allows our governments to "turn on a dime" and make the hard desicsions. Unlike the completely broken US system which is paralyzed by powerful Senators from tiny States and Congressmen who have to run for re-election every 2 years.

It took 230 years .. but it is clear to me the US political experiment has failed its citizens. So instead of finding excuses perhaps political reform is a better idea. But that is never going happen as long as they continue to make their Founding Fathers godlike and "exceptional".

I get the feeling this writer is really just a GOP apologist who is faced with our success as a modern social democracy so he is making excuses.
09:46 AM on 07/18/2012
As an employee of an American based neo-con think-tank I'm pretty sure you have a vested interest in promoting natural resources consumption and the so-called benefits of such an economy. It's called a fundamental bias. You are not going to be objective in any way.