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Part 3: A Matter of Lies and Death

Posted: 12/29/11 08:04 AM ET

In this four part series exclusive to Huffington Post, novelist and essayist Douglas Anthony Cooper examines the accusations of genocide that have been made against Israel by its critics. You can read Part One: "Genghis Khan with a Computer" here, and Part Two: Murder by Numbers here.

"There is a Russian writer who once described vandal states as Genghis Khan with a telegraph. Israel is Genghis Khan with a computer."
-
Norman Finkelstein


GENGIS KHAN IS in fact an interesting choice. He is not just any murderous figure. Even among the most homicidal rulers, he occupies a special position. We know that Stalin admired him immensely, and for good reason: Until Stalin arrived, Genghis Khan was almost certainly the most prolific murderer in history. He may still be. If you discount the famine under Mao, Genghis Khan may be responsible for more deaths than Mao and Stalin combined: some say 40 million people.

It is interesting to compare this man, in particular, to Israel. History and legend offer competing accounts of the Mongol emperor's life, but we know the approximate story. Genghis Khan was born around 1167 to a minor tribal chieftain in Mongolia. The boy's name was Temujin. Only later would he achieve the title "Genghis Khan" (which perhaps means "Universal Ruler"). Temujin's father was treacherously murdered by a rival tribe, the Tatars, when he was about nine years old, and this reduced the boy and his remaining family to outcasts.

The nomadic life hardened him. Temujin murdered his half-brother Bekhter over an argument: a useful move that made him the de facto leader of the family. His mother then trained him in survival and diplomacy, and he spent the next decade clawing his way to power, slowly amassing a loyal and ruthless army.

When at last he had the opportunity and the resources, Temujin avenged his father. He took care that every male adult in the Tatar tribe -- everyone "taller than a cart handle" -- was slaughtered. His closest childhood friend, Jamuka, became a rival and a threat, so Temujin broke his back. All of this preceded the orgy of homicide for which he became famous.

It does not matter which of the tales of Genghis Khan are true, and which are exaggerated: whether he killed 20 million or 40 million. The point is that his name was for centuries a metonym for "evil," much as "Hitler" is for us today. In much of the Middle East, his memory remains vivid and despised: Temujin was responsible for a massacre that is still very real in that part of the world, and will never be forgotten.

Israel has perhaps 4,000 innocent Palestinians on its conscience. Perhaps 8,000. Perhaps 3,487. Whereas Genghis Khan murdered 40 million. Some say 20 million. One source credits the Mongols with 29,927,000 deaths.

When we speak of "orders of magnitude," it is not just a rhetorical device: It is a very simple but useful mathematical tool. It is a way of comparing vastly different amounts, without having to specify precise numbers. We generally define this as a power of 10: multiply by 10, and you go up an order of magnitude. Multiply by 10 times 10, and you go up two orders. Hence, one million is three orders of magnitude higher than one thousand: This is a good way of conceptualizing the difference between a poor man and a millionaire.

When we compare history's murderous regimes, we are reduced to comparing orders of magnitude. This is a grotesque Stalinist exercise, because it requires us to abstract from the individual. Unfortunately, it is necessary. I fully expect to be bombarded upon publication with arguments demonstrating that Israel is in fact responsible for the death of 6,453 unarmed Palestinian civilians, over fifty years. Or 8,347.

An individual life always matters, of course -- it is the world, and more -- but for the purposes of clarifying this particular libel, these precise numbers are not the issue. Worse, they are a red herring: They distract from the crucial intellectual task at hand. We are trying to grasp the difference between the death of a few thousand individuals and the whole-scale slaughter of a nation. We have all that we need -- the numbers and the precision -- to show that defaming Israel with this slur is a particular kind of lie: it is not simply inaccurate, but it is inaccurate by orders of magnitude.

The comparison to Genghis Khan is particularly obscene. Assume a probably low number for his victims -- 20 million slaughtered -- and assign Israel the impossibly high number of 15,000 -- and you are still off by three orders of magnitude. Even one order of magnitude is hugely significant: That is the point. Three orders of magnitude is the difference in height between an ant and a human being. Now try to imagine that in terms of the butchered. (You can't. The mind is not capable.)

The true difference between Israel and Genghis Khan is probably four orders of magnitude: the difference in height between a human being and Mount Everest. Norman Finkelstein, although he means no harm, is happy to spread the lie that Israel -- with its few thousand dead -- has essentially the same blood-drenched record as Genghis Khan, this archetype of atrocity, still considered by many the most brutal man in history. The only significant difference is that those clever Israelis have digital weaponry. With this technological advantage, the bloodthirsty Jews -- no different in their vampire-like craving from Temujin -- have killed some 4,000 Palestinian civilians. Perhaps 2,000. Perhaps 9,000. In over half a century.

It is not simply a matter of fatalities, of course. There is the matter of land. In terms of imperial ambition, we are expected to understand that Israel is precisely as voracious as the Mongol emperor. By exterminating so many people that whole sections of the earth reverted to forest -- thereby altering the planetary climate -- Genghis Khan managed to conquer the largest contiguous empire in history: 9.3 million square miles, 16 percent of the earth's land mass.

Just as Israel -- the modern equivalent -- has ruthlessly occupied 8,522 square miles.

I shall leave it to you to calculate this aspect of the lie, in orders of magnitude.

It may surprise us, but strictly speaking, Temujin was probably not genocidal. His intention does not seem to have been to eliminate entire peoples: he simply wished to subjugate them. I am extrapolating from the fact that he had the opportunity to annihilate the tribe that murdered his father -- presumably his most hated enemies -- and he did not. He left the children of the Tatars alive.

On the other hand, it is undeniable that Hitler willed the eradication of the Jews. The evidence is overwhelming. Jewish artifacts, for instance, were collected for a museum to be built in Prague: the museum of an erased people. Hence we know that he intended their erasure.

Genghis Khan, although he murdered far more individuals, is categorically different from Hitler. He was in fact less evil.

Even if Hitler's personal wishes were not what directly resulted in the Final Solution -- this is the so-called "Functionalist" argument among historians of the Third Reich -- we know the nature of that solution: it was designed to be complete. There is no debate here, unless you are a Holocaust denier, and Norman Finkelstein (to his modest credit) is not.

The professor hems and haws in this interview about explicit efforts to compare Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the Holocaust itself. He almost brings himself to say that perhaps the Holocaust was worse, but no: "I don't see how morally you could compare and say something like -- it's worse to drag a girl into a gas chamber than to drop white phosphorus on her. How do you compare those things?"

I am showing you how. This deals with a matter so revolting that I suspect he counts on it thwarting any attempt to reason or measure. White phosphorus is vile. It is among the ugliest military substances we have, ranking with napalm. I say "we," because it is employed currently by Canada (my nation), America (Finkelstein's), Israel and Britain, among others. It is being used -- as we speak -- by what I consider perhaps the most decent nation on earth: Denmark.

It is employed primarily (and paradoxically) to provide either illumination or a smoke screen. The nations I have listed above, with one exception, are committed to the principle of not using white phosphorus on human targets. The exception, however, is not Israel. It is America. The US reserves the right to employ white phosphorus against combatants, and has admitted to shelling the enemy in Fallujah with this substance. Which is to say: burning them alive, with a fire that cannot be quenched.

Those nations committed to using white phosphorus only as an illuminant or screening device, however, are likely to find themselves in Israel's hellish position sooner or later: They will have incinerated civilians. Perhaps children. I suspect most of them already have. In particular, it is almost impossible to use white phosphorus safely in built-up areas.

Nevertheless, there is an enormous difference between the deliberate use of white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon against civilians -- which is a war crime -- and the reckless employment of it as a veiling device.

Nobody suggests that herding children into the gas chambers was anything but utterly premeditated. Whereas only the likes of Finkelstein can honestly imagine Israelis intentionally targeting little girls with incendiary weapons.

The Israeli case is examined in depth in The Gonzaga Journal of International Law. "There is only one known instance where the Israeli army used white phosphorus not as an obscurant or an illuminant, but to burn away brush." The conclusion, even though it renders Finkelstein slanderous, should not make anyone particularly proud: the report suggests that civilian deaths were a foreseeable consequence of using this substance non-offensively in an area as dense as Gaza. Hence the article's sobering subtitle: "A Case Study in Adherence to Inadequate Humanitarian Laws."

White phosphorus is legal, but I find it impossible not to support the ban suggested in the report. No, it has no effective replacement, tactically -- especially in creating instant towers of cloud to obscure snipers in tall buildings. Soldiers will die if it is banned. As will civilians: White phosphorus is often deployed to illuminate a battlefield so that citizens will not be targeted accidentally.

Nevertheless, Israel in particular should govern itself according to this dictum: it is a crime to grant Norman Finkelstein even the appearance of accuracy.

This is a man determined, for whatever harrowing personal reasons, to paint his own people as a race of eager child-killers. Do not let him. If you employ white phosphorus, what happened in Gaza will happen again.

Yes, Hamas has targeted Israeli civilians with this substance, more than once. Israel is characteristically more generous than Finkelstein, however, in their assessment of intent: "The assumption in the IDF Southern Command is that the group that fired the mortars did not know that they contained phosphorus."

Meanwhile, someone with Finkelstein's rhetorical gifts, but paired with a sense of decency, ought to take on nations explicitly committed to using white phosphorus on humans. "The boils of hell" accurately describes tactics employed by his own country.

The report of the girls burned in Gaza was one of the sickening events that caused me to ask myself that first question: might Israel be an evil nation? To understand the facts in no way makes their death less horrific, but it permits the perspective that Finkelstein shuns.

"How do you compare those things," he asks. This is how. First you look at numbers. 400 terrible things is simply not the same as 4 million terrible things. It differs, specifically, by four orders of magnitude: the difference in length between a gnat and a blue whale.

Then you examine intent. 400 accidental but foreseeable deaths is a truly repellent matter, but still not quite the same as 4 million premeditated murders, expressly committed for the purpose of exterminating an entire people. It is the difference between manslaughter and genocide.

Finkelstein, who knows this too, probably considers himself wily whenever he restricts his explicit analogy to Mongol butchers. Americans can be expected to know less about Temujin than Arabs do; and for those who are better-informed, this analogy circumvents the issue of defining genocide. Whether I am right or not regarding Temujin's intentions, his name is not generally associated with that word, so Finkelstein's analogy simply accuses Israel of the less rigorous crime: unspeakable slaughter, on a scale unimaginable.

Finkelstein is fond of this analogy: On his own site, he posts a petition from the group SPHR ("Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights") decrying how he was censored when offering up a variant during a lecture: "Genghis Khan with a laptop."

Unfortunately for Professor Finkelstein, when he takes genocide out of the equation, he has nowhere to hide. If the charge is genocide, the death toll is not itself the issue: The crime is far more complex. When he equates Israel with Genghis Khan, however, we no longer have to argue about definitions. All we have to do is look at the numbers. We are left with the sorry specter of a liar who can be refuted by any child who has mastered basic arithmetic. If you can count, then you understand. You have some measure of Finkelstein, the scholar.

He is more cunning, oddly enough, when he says: "Israel is committing a holocaust in Gaza." This is a more vulgar statement -- by far -- but it is less easily refuted. A major part of his life's work is an attempt to demonstrate that what his parents survived was not unique. In the context of that work, the indefinite article -- "a holocaust" -- gives Finkelstein an out: He is not equating Gaza with the Shoah. Not specifically. He is implying it in every way, but he can legitimately argue that he is stating nothing more than: "what's happening in Gaza is in the same class as a lot of really bad things."

Even those without a PhD can be surprisingly slippery in the charge of genocide. Many are aware of the debate over the meaning of the term: they use this to gain room to wiggle. Others will insist that the Israeli crime is a special type of genocide: It does not look like what we have seen historically, but only because it is subtle. "Slow-motion genocide" is a favorite of the more practiced sophists on Huffington Post. Also "passive genocide." The first suggests that not all of the deaths have occurred yet, but they will. The second suggests that a huge number of non-violent deaths could have been prevented if the conflict had been avoided.

"Slow motion genocide" is easily refuted: even discounting international refugees, the Palestinian population has more than tripled since the founding of Israel. In 2010, according to the World Bank, the population of the West Bank and Gaza was 4,152,100. It has grown since. To demonstrate that something is moving slowly and inexorably towards a certain point, you must at the very least demonstrate that it is not moving backwards. Zeno would have found this paradox unimpressive, for the simple reason that it is not a paradox. It is simply wrong.

"Passive genocide" is the more compelling theory, because you can use it to generate figures that look something like actual genocide: hundreds of thousands. These are the Palestinians who would -- we are told -- be alive if their circumstances had been different.

This figure is almost always calculated with Israel in mind, of course. You rarely hear of the "passive genocide" of the world's poor, whose shocking infant mortality rate could be ameliorated if they were simply less poor. Still, it is worth investigating.

Infant mortality turns out to be crucial -- it is perhaps the single most important statistic. The World Health Organization explains that it "correlates strongly with more comprehensive measures of health, such as disability-adjusted life expectancy." They go on to reveal reluctantly that the infant mortality rate among Palestinian refugees is lower in the West Bank and Gaza than it is in Syria or Lebanon. Moreover: "Perinatal mortality is highest in Lebanon, and maternal mortality has been consistently higher in Lebanon and in the Syrian Arab Republic than in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank for the past 20 years."

Therefore, if you truly wish to embrace this concept of "passive genocide," you have to conclude that Syria and Lebanon are committing this vicious but mysterious crime against the Palestinians much more aggressively than Israel is.

Impeded access to healthcare is also said to be "passive genocide." Americans in particular should think hard before embracing that definition: Harvard Medical School has determined that 45,000 people per year die in the United States because they lack health insurance. I happen to despise this cruel system -- and the Tea Party revealed its true nature in applauding this barbarism -- but lots of ugly things are not genocide.

When the Palestinian Authorities cancelled payments in mid-treatment for critically-ill patients as a protest tactic, human rights groups were appalled, but the words "passive genocide" were avoided. Rightly so.

"Passive genocide" is a pernicious term, of course, because it renders actual genocide meaningless. Every nation with a sizable population of unhealthy citizens is committing "passive genocide."

We know what actual genocide looks like. There is nothing passive or lethargic about it. Genocide of a people who number in the millions means efficient butchery on a scale we associate with factory farms. Yes, Professor Finkelstein, the Holocaust was an industry: a multi-national abattoir. To accuse Israel of "passive genocide" or "slow-motion genocide" is simply a useful way of diverting us from the truth: that Israel is not remotely guilty of the inconceivable crime committed by Hitler. Which is to say the deliberate, premeditated annihilation of a people.

Which is to say: genocide.

Tomorrow Part 4: The Libel.


 
 
 

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12:18 AM on 01/09/2012
While the article is particularly well written and the arguments are particularly well articulated, I cannot help but keep thinking "no, duh!". It's sad that Israel has to be defended against claims that are so obviously absurd.
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BcemXAHA
אני כלום בלעדיהם
10:37 AM on 01/02/2012
Douglas, Happy New Year, I am finally able to catch up on all 4 installments,

There is a reason why finklestein was denied tenure by DePaul University. As far as I'm concerned there is only one propagandist less trustworthy than finklestein, and that's pappe.

I saw finky a few times on the boardwalk of Brighton Beach in Russianville (Brooklyn, NY). He looks horrible, he looks disheveled and unkempt, never-mind lonely. He sits on the benches watches the water.
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Sam Bark
It's a MAD world after all...
01:07 AM on 12/31/2011
Mr Cooper - Thank you for your refreshing series of well written and articulated articles on this difficult and complex subject matter, they are a fresh breeze of air on Hpost which is not always the fairest site on Israel and everything regarding the Mideast conflict, I cannot wait for your next segment and definitely would get you books.
Do not let the anti-Israel vultures get to you, this is a difficult place for any decent thinking person that does not subscribe to the Arab-palestinian propaganda as being espoused by Finkelstein, Pappe, Segev and other revisionists.
I applaud your fortitude, thanks. And Happy New Year to all.
07:53 AM on 12/30/2011
If it is a crime to believe that Finkelstein's figures are accurate then it is a crime to believe that Human Rights Watch and B'Tselum's figures are accurate, or to carry out careful scholarship. I have never encountered a person who described Israeli's policies with respect to Palestine as being genocidal, although it is hard not to define the 700,000 Palestinian war refugees as victims of ethnic cleansing. The Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank and the lack of rights for Arab Israelis remain racist, and the Arabs, who are victims in this conflict, deserve better than to have their grievances met with talk of Jewish suffering of a kind for which the Arabs are not responsible. .
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Yarden
Tel Aviv dude
12:43 PM on 12/30/2011
700,000 Palestine war refugees ethic cleansed? Lack of rights for Arab Israeli's? Your answer is too simplistic. You must step back a few years in history and ask these questions.

1. Why were the Palestinian refugees were denied social and citizenship rights in there host arab countries?

2. Why are arab jews that were expelled from there homes, not aloud to return to their host country? Why are arabs not "responsible" for Jewish suffering?(Which resolved in mass immigration to Palestine..)

3. Why during the illegal occupation of Gaza and WB by Jordan and Egypt, were the Palestinians not aloud citizenship? Why were aspirations for a Palestine state not perceived during this time?

4. How come the Arab high committee and Pan-Arabist during the 1930's gave no considering to a Palestinian state to the "Palestinians"? Why do modern day Gazan's want to kick out 4 million "refugee's" into Israel?
09:14 PM on 01/02/2012
Thanks for the refresher course.
The problem is people don't read history or if they do it is one sided...

Great comeback..
02:03 PM on 01/21/2012
Actually, when you research the 1948 War you realize that "ethnic cleansing" is a politicized term that does NOT accurately and fairly describe the emergence of the refugees. While it is true that Ben-Gurion ordered the expulsion of many communities of Palestinians (namely those within the area partitioned to the Jews), he did so in the context of a war of survival - to avert the extinction of the Jewish people. When you consider what had just happened to Jews in Europe, and the fact that many (though not necessarily all) of the Palestinians were fighting against the Jews, the concept of expulsion of those communities becomes much less appalling and more a tactical necessity.
06:29 AM on 12/30/2011
I am sooo sick of arguments and wars based on hidden agendas such as religious beliefs disguised as politics.
07:15 AM on 12/30/2011
Most of the founders of modern Israel were agnostic or atheist Jews who saw the need for a Hebrew state. "Religious beliefs" were not a big part of the equation.
08:39 AM on 01/02/2012
so you think that there is a real separation of the jewish religion and the Hebrew state today ?????
I personally cant see the distinction.
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peter sfikas
Yia sou
01:01 AM on 12/30/2011
If the only constructive criticism you offer for Israel is; "Israel is not perfect" you are not doing Israel any favors. Either conveniently, or foolishly, you oversanitize grave wrongs that should be brought to light and rectified. This is the only simple, plain, undeniable truth. Good friends should be truthful in their constructive criticism of friends. Your way does not help Israel, does help the Palestinians, does not help you, and does not help me. If you are a lover of Truth, you must love ALL of the above, equally. Take away the names of the above, and you're looking at the white of the TRUTH. It's called, PEOPLE !
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peter sfikas
Yia sou
01:16 PM on 12/30/2011
...correction: does NOT help the Palestinians
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maxwelldog
even if i don't go anywhere, I'll still be late.
12:23 AM on 12/30/2011
"... the deliberate, premeditated annihilation of a people."

How far back may we search? You included the German attempt which is from the last millenium.
May I then go as far back as the vetry first approach to Israel ?

Seven tribes? Doesn't that meet with "... the deliberate, premeditated annihilation of a people."
All the men.
All the women.
All the children?
The cattle and house animals.
Burn the crops.
Burn the houses.
Move on.

Well, if not Temujin, then the aliens in INDEPENDENCE DAY (with Jeff Goldblum, Will Smith)

Don't sell the reality of war with society. They are incompatible.
War is cold.
You kill all who will take up arms against you, who will speak to doing that, and those who may grow up to do the deed.
But the old guard of Judaism is no more "clean" of the stench of death than those you chastise now for their failed attempt.
And, am I correct in my thought that ONE of those seven tribes survived?
Hittites?
Where are they, now? or...who are they, may be a better question.
Isn't THAT what Ghenghis Khan did?
11:18 PM on 12/29/2011
It's very simple......The writer is an Israel defender....I'm waiting him to debate Norman by himself and that could be very interesting..
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01:14 AM on 12/30/2011
Sure would.
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Sam Bark
It's a MAD world after all...
12:41 AM on 12/31/2011
shafin - Norman who?
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TomAmitai
07:37 PM on 12/29/2011
Let me guess, you plan on using this pseudo-scholarly smear job on Finkelstein to try to keep him from fulfilling his upcoming speaking engagements in Canada, don't you? Or do you hope to get him charged under Canada's hate speech laws?
12:13 AM on 12/30/2011
Good insight - is this inane smear job designed to try keep Finkelstein out of Canada ? Maybe they fear Finkelstein in Israel now more than Iran. Finkelstein's talk in Canada is going to be ' "How to solve the Israel - Palestine Conflict " - there is nothing more feared by the Israeli war mongerers than the threat of peace. Peace means the end of colonial expansion and the war economy. The simple peace solution to the one sided conflict, so clearly explained by Finkelstein, is following and enforcing international law. Israels greatest nightmare ... peace, justice and the law.
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BcemXAHA
אני כלום בלעדיהם
10:43 AM on 01/02/2012
finkey does enough damage with his own self loathing speeches without anyone needing to smear him. He shouldn't be arrested or charged for anything, he should continue to live with the shame of knowing that he was denied tenure by DePaul!
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lemikam
My spoon is too big. I am a banana.
07:03 PM on 12/29/2011
Mr. Cooper is concerned solely with two questions. First: are the specific accusations of genocide leveled against Israel by several prominent scholars fair? Second: if not, why are they made in the first place? To the first, Mr. Cooper answers, emphatically and empirically, no. To the second, he offers up the phenomenon as the latest example of a long line of anti-Jewish rhetoric and deed by the West, and he makes a perfectly rational case that, given that an accusation that Israel is genocidal is utterly absurd, it must be borne out of an irrational opposition to Israel itself.

To be clear: this isn't to say that there isn't a RATIONAL basis for opposing Israel or its policies. It is absolutely fair - wrong, I believe, but fair - for one to insist that Israel has no right to exist on land that would otherwise be occupied by Palestinians. It is absolutely rational - totally wrong, but rational - to point out that Israel has done wrong, and to argue that it has no right to exist because of the wrong it has done.

What is neither fair nor rational is to accuse Israel of something it demonstrably has NOT done and use that imagined crime as a pretense for disenfranchising Jews. THAT act - accusing Israel of crimes it demonstrably has not committed - smacks of the blood libel and of anti-Semitism. THAT is what Mr. Cooper is talking about.
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cliffstep
09:26 PM on 12/29/2011
Well put.
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dhlincali
12:37 PM on 12/30/2011
Exactly
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checkmoot
We have met the enemy and he is us.
06:48 PM on 12/29/2011
You can hardly talk about genocide without mentioning the Americas. From the first landing of Europeans in 1497, to 1897, about 90% of the population of two whole continents were exterminated.
07:18 AM on 12/30/2011
...but as no Jews were involved, it's not up for discussion. The cause du jour is bashing Israel. That's why I appreciate this author's brilliant and devastating refutation of Israel's detractors.
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checkmoot
We have met the enemy and he is us.
08:45 AM on 12/30/2011
So you are totally okay with the way Israel treats non-Jews that are under their civil or military control ?
Gerontion
lacrimae rerum
05:56 PM on 12/29/2011
To claim that the Palestinian people are "invented", weren't there, never existed, don't exist etc etc, while continuously seeking to dispossess, oppress and displace them throughout the 20th and into the 21st century, may or may not be genocide, depending on one's preferred definition, but it certainly seems a unique form of malevolence.
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JacksonJones
Absit iniuria verbis!
06:54 PM on 12/29/2011
In what way is that unique?

Moreover, no one claims that the people weren't there, the claim you reference is that they people who were there did not constitute a people. And, notwithsta­nding my belief that the Palestinia­ns are a people, that very sentiment was shared by quite a lot of Arabs, including leading members of the PLO. E.g

Zuheir Muhsin, PLO Military Department head and member of Executive Council, March 1977, Trouw (Dutch newspaper)­: "There are no difference­s between Jordanians­, Palestinia­ns, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinia­n identity..­.. yes, the existence of a separate Palestinia­n identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinia­n state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel."
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montecristo5000
04:50 AM on 12/30/2011
Enemies of PAlestine always wheel out that one, single phrase.

It's not the opinion of the average Palestinian, it's just an isolated quote by an individual, and there are by far more embarassing things said by Israelis on a regular basis, including Netanyahu's words on camera in front of his kids that America is "a thing which can be easily moved".
12:38 PM on 12/30/2011
"....no one claims that the people weren't there..."

Yes they do! I've seen it on these boards myself! Lots of times. People even reference that tripe "From Time Immemorial" to back up these loony claims, a book that even Zionist historians have roundly condemned as a fraud.
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Anybodyseenthepopos
אני כלום בלעדיהם
12:53 AM on 12/30/2011
There is no such thing as a "preferred definition of genocide". It has or is either being committed or NOT.
05:55 PM on 12/29/2011
The notion that Temujin was evil or a butcher is purely a western notion. He was not more evil than Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, John the Lion Hearted etc. He was brutal as Alexander and Ceasar but far more sucessful in conquest. In fact most Kingdoms flourished under Mongol rule since the culture and religion were left intact.The notion that Israel committed genocide is absolutely nonsense. There is ample evidence of genocide by the Turks and possibly Arabs over the ages. This is not to say that the modern state of Israel has been perfect but history will point out that they have been particular brutish at times, especially when any religious extremist minority group has undue influence on any goverment or society, but never commited genocide. Muslims have killed more other Muslims in sheer numbers and discriminated heavily against ethnic and religious minorities over the decades with very little recognition or protest by the world. Yet let a non-muslim kill a muslim even in self defense and you can see all the vile hate and distortion in the Arab media. I believe that it will be in Israel's interest to deal effectively with their own religious hateful extremistin and endorsed a free and democratic Palestinian state. If tolerance by the Arabs in their present countries towards their ethnic or religious minorities is any indication, the right of return should never be agreed on and Jerusalem should be the Jewish state capital.
05:13 PM on 12/29/2011
I disagree with the characterization of Genghis Khan as the "most prolific murderer" in history. From what I've read, he gave his foes a choice: surrender or die. I know he wiped out many European armies that considered him some kind of wog. "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack Weatherford, for example, says: "In nearly every country the Mongols conquered, they brought an unprecedented rise in cultural communication, expanded trade, and a blossoming of civilization. Vastly more progressive than his European or Asian counterparts, Genghis Khan abolished torture, granted universal religious freedom, and smashed feudal systems of aristocratic privilege."
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Douglas Anthony Cooper
Novelist (Amnesia), www.bloggermortis.com
09:19 PM on 12/29/2011
I was determined to stay out of the comments section -- my piece says what I intend it to say -- but I thought I should address this, since it's tangential to my argument, and it's fascinating. You're absolutely right, of course: even with Genghis Khan, there is a revisionist movement. "Revisionist" in the respectable sense: I don't suspect Weatherford of a sinister agenda. (I would see this differently if I were a Muslim: they might regard the renovation of Temujin's reputation as something akin to Holocaust denial).

In some parts of the world, Genghis Khan is not even thought to require vindication: it seems that nobody is consistently a tyrant in everybody's history books.

What is crucial to acknowledge, however, is that even if Genghis Khan is discovered -- proven -- to have been Tom Hanks, only nicer, this will in no way alter the intent of Finkelstein's analogy, or lessen the damage done. Weatherford's thesis has not trickled down to the world that Finkelstein hopes to inspire with hatred. You'll have a hard time convincing me that he was saying something like, "Israel is an enlightened ruler with a computer." Especially in the Arab world -- and Finkelstein knows this -- "Genghis Khan" means one thing only: pitiless slaughter on a scale unique in their history. (Tomorrow I'll quote a canonical Muslim historian: someone that many Arabs will in fact have read.)

Nevertheless, fascinating stuff. And with that I'm going to evaporate permanently.
01:26 AM on 12/30/2011
So, first it doesn't matter that Norman Finkelstein never used the term "genocide," and now it doesn't matter that the comparison he did make -- with Genghis Khan -- is not as monolithic in its meaning as you pretend that it is: you know what he meant.

That's some awfully weak beer you're peddling, Mr. Cooper.
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04:52 PM on 12/29/2011
Douglas or anyone remotely interested in an excellent documentary with respect to genocide itself; there is an excellent piece on the pbs website. From Rwanda to the Holocaust and many times and places in between.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/worse-than-war/the-film/watch-worse-than-war/24/

It's By Daniel Jonah Goldhagen.