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God Save Our Queen!

Posted: 01/16/12 02:05 AM ET

With respect to those who suggest we henceforth do without the British Monarchy, there wouldn't be a Canada without the British Monarchy. This trumps everything as regards this debate.

"Propter eos autem."

Is this the way to show ourselves properly grateful to those who at first allowed us, then protected us, later promoted us and then freely and willingly gave us our independence -- with no revolution necessary Historically speaking, how common is that?

I'm not saying this arcane debate shouldn't occur. Rather, such debate is fitting for hallowed universities of sterling reputation and in the properly respectful and hushed tones reserved for impeccably credentialed constitutional professors.

I'm certain a debate on the subject between such distinguished profs would result in the following joint statement being issued: "We would show ourselves ungrateful in the extreme were we to cast off our historic promoters, protectors, and guarantors of nationhood." Harrumph!

Quick Poll

Is the Monarchy important for Canada?

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The question then, is this: With the limited time MP's have available to them while the House of Commons is in session, should they spend time on removing the British monarchy from Canada's Constitution or should we have them spend time on the following?

Jobs, Attawapiskat, the health and well-being of citizens, the economy, world peace concomitant with our country's peace-keeping efforts around the globe, rebuilding our tattered transportation infrastructure -- you may recall recent media reports about the condition of the Champlain Bridge for just one example -- and the military defence of our sovereign territory. Other pressing, important matters also await the government's attention.

All of the things above are more important than taking time out of our MP's schedules to disrespect the British Monarchy and the very ideals of our democracy.

We have real problems in Canada at the moment -- and the British Monarchy isn't one of them.

"A-riding in a storm-toss'd ship, 'tis not the time to inspect the maker's frescoes."

To read why the Queen doesn't matter, click here. For an excerpt from Sally Bedell Smith's biography: Elizabeth The Queen: The Life of a Modern Monarch click here.
 

Follow John Brian Shannon on Twitter: www.twitter.com/@JBSCanada

With respect to those who suggest we henceforth do without the British Monarchy, there wouldn't be a Canada without the British Monarchy. This trumps everything as regards this debate. "Propter eos ...
With respect to those who suggest we henceforth do without the British Monarchy, there wouldn't be a Canada without the British Monarchy. This trumps everything as regards this debate. "Propter eos ...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JBSCanada
They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot!
02:23 PM on 01/17/2012
Everyone is certainly entitled to their point of view.

I for one, am proud to be a citizen of a country which, since it's founding has promoted democratic rights and freedoms for individual­s. We inherited much from the founding nations of Canada - Great Britain and France. Our "Father" and "Mother" if you will allow me use of the expression­.

Our entire legal system is a carefully crafted mix of British criminal law and French 'tort' or civil law. We simply couldn't have successful­ly made the transition to a modern nation-sta­te without the benevolent assistance of our founding nations - of which our Monarchy was and remains a part.

Because we don't depend on either country (or the Monarchy) on a day-to-day basis anymore (quite unlike our early days) should we speak abusively of them and try to minimize their many contributi­ons?

Just because your Mother is getting old and you no longer need her assistance daily, should you just toss her into the nearest dumpster on your way to work?

Ungrateful in the extreme.

Apparently, the Monarchy costs each Canadian $1.53 per year. The Queen and other Royals are our biggest boosters who look for opportunities to promote our national interests. Why? Because we are part of the Commonwealth family. Our success is their success!

Finally, for those who prefer the republican model of government, the U.S. beckons. We wish you well! Bon voyage!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
04:09 PM on 01/17/2012
$1.53 per person is close to 50 million dollars. That's a pretty big paycheque for being born into the right (or wrong, depending on how it's looked at) family.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JBSCanada
They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot!
04:38 PM on 01/17/2012
There is no doubt that 50 million dollars is a lot of money.

On balance, one must also factor-in what we receive in the way of benefits from the Monarchy.

Many citizens may not be aware of the many ways we Canadians benefit and have historically benefited from the Monarchy and our overall relationship with the UK.

Once I have collected sufficient (up-to-date) data, I will post a blog on the subject. I can already tell you, the 50 million we spend to support the Monarchy when they visit Canada is paltry compared to the benefits we receive now and have received over the decades, economically and otherwise.

You've brought up a good point - and one which may, in actual fact, help to prove the case for keeping our attachments to the Royal Family.

Thank you for your comment.
John Brian Shannon
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
okgranny
Egalitarian by birth
12:55 PM on 01/17/2012
Royalty has absolutely nothing to do with democracy, John. In fact, it is probably the antithesis of an egalitarian society like that of Canada. Just because something has always been, does not make it correct. The Queen in Canada is a meaningless anachronism. Canada needs to grow up!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ljkcan
I don't let geographical borders limit my thinking
10:36 AM on 01/17/2012
I am not a royalists(my grandmother is turning in her grave now) however I think it is important right now with Harper at the helm to not give the Prime Minister absolute power.

The older I get I like that safe guard that belongs to the GG.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
12:08 PM on 01/17/2012
The GG has zero power. Harper prorogued parliament twice to stall bills and avoid inquiries. He shouldn't have been allowed to do this and the GG did nothing.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ljkcan
I don't let geographical borders limit my thinking
06:17 PM on 01/17/2012
Lets see if he gets away with it with the new GG. I hope not.
10:26 AM on 01/17/2012
Well said , John !!!
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Skepticat
Supporting skeptical felines everywhere
07:11 AM on 01/17/2012
Notwithstanding spirited defence by a waning number of monarchists who can always be counted on to create a flood of supporting comments, most of us here are quite indifferent to foreign royals.
However we generally have even more aversion to our own preening politicians trying to look "historical" at prolonged constitutional conferences. That and more pressing concerns rather than adulation for a sometimes dysfunctional family 3000 miles away has kept the status quo. To suggest that monarchies have anything to do with promotion of democracies is also historically pure hogwash. Democracies exist because previous generations going all the way back to 1215 "disrespected" the British Monarchy of their day and set increasing limits on the inherited and not necessarily merited power of the crown. Each attempt to limit royal power power was strongly resisted at the time. By 1642 the disenchantment with the Monarch led to a civil war and the demise of Charles 1st in 1649. Were the puritan protectorate less obnoxious there would have been little interest in restoring the monarchy or later infusing it with House of Orange, Hanover, or Saxe-Coburg off-spring. Democracy is maintained by constitutions which insist that royals butt out of politics. As to debates occurring - in REAL democracies ordinary citizens, not just self appointed elites enjoy the freedom to examine traditions and if they want to chuck off vestiges of a colonial past, risk being called "ingrates", and create new traditions of their own so be it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
okgranny
Egalitarian by birth
12:57 PM on 01/17/2012
I like you skepticat. You have good sense.
03:04 AM on 01/17/2012
JohnB..Not having a great historical knowledge to debate
whether or not we should keep the Monarchy or not,
I will pass on this issue.

The one thing I will comment on though is that we (our
Government) does have more important issues to deal with
right now for the people of this great country.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
01:06 AM on 01/17/2012
Canada is a nation founded by two empires: Britain and France. People, regardless of their allegiances, tend to forget that.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
zuzuzpetals
12:00 AM on 01/17/2012
I'm an American who often reads Huffpo Canada. From my perspective, you are doing better than the US, as a country, partly because you never had a Revolution that separated you from England. You now have more unity, are healthier, are better educated, avoided the economic melt down because you did not permit a corrupt system to deregulate your financial institutions, and have more upward mobility--i.e a healthier middle class.

What the American Revolution gave the world was a fantastic idea and an amazing set of documents, not the least of which was the Bill of Rights. I don't know why we should have developed into such a ruthless, profit focused place, (De Toqueville did say that his impression was that all America cared about was mercantilism...) but the point is, maybe there is something non- specific that identity with England gives you. And you will set loose unpredictable and unwanted things by breaking so throughly with the continuity of history.

It's not that I admire this unpleasant royal family--but I would not be so quick to tamper with what you've got---the most civilized nation in the Northern Hemisphere.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JBSCanada
They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot!
01:21 AM on 01/17/2012
Thank you for your kind words about Canada.

I've spent quite a bit of time in the states and I must say that America's greatest strength is the American people. We are fortunate to have you as neighbours.

It appears you may be a reader of Professor Paul Krugman. I offer a link to an excellent NYT piece published recently by Krugman - many thoughtful comments there: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/opinion/krugman-how-fares-the-dream.html?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

My comment and a link to Prof. Krugman's article appears at:
http://jbsnews.wordpress.com/

America will triumph over recent mis-steps. The American people will see to that - as they have historically and continuously done since the U.S. became a nation.

Thank you for your comment
John Brian Shannon
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
zuzuzpetals
08:03 PM on 01/17/2012
Not quite as optimistic as you are about the American people.

The country is really becoming ungovernable. The South has power far in excess of its actual numbers and is dangerously retrograde. We have, in essence, an ongoing political and moral civil war (still) underway.

I think we can't "triumph" as you say because we have too much atoning to do for the Iraq/Afghan wars (Empire) and for allowing corporatism to overtake our experiment in democracy.

Yes---I admire and learn from Krugman.

Best of luck to our Northern neighbors.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
alsm9
Bombshell
12:25 PM on 01/17/2012
Those links won't going away...Great Britain is a huge part of our history and I would like to see it acknowledged. But I don't like the idea that any tax payer money goes to the Royals. I know that when they visit Canada, we pay for it. These are extremely wealthy and priviledged people, let them pay for their own trips. The Queen makes no descisions regarding our nation, we are 100% self governed, she is just a figurehead. We did not have a revolution, but we have slowly over time, gained our independence in a non violent manner and I, as a Canadian and quite proud of that. This is just one more step in that evolution. Our country has been having this debate since the colonies. When my Dad was a kid, the maple leaf flag and our national anthem didn't exist (he's 80 now) and there were controversies over their introduction. The monarchy in our country will eventually be abolished...it's just a matter of time.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
zuzuzpetals
07:56 PM on 01/17/2012
Really interesting. Thanks. Disgusting that Canadians have to help support the Royals.

Well, perhaps, your country can pull it off and not lose something intangible and really vital.

Your country gives me hope.
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07:18 PM on 01/16/2012
By ignoring the direct and consequential role that the Monarchy has played and continues to play as a guarantor of rights for Canada's First Nations, this discussion of the role of the Monarchy is febrile and without foundation. Why is this vital role being ignored by the media? I haven't read the Liberal Party discussions around this issue, but if they haven't focused on First Nations, they've missed the boat too.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JBSCanada
They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot!
08:19 PM on 01/16/2012
You bring up an excellent point and the subject is entirely deserving of it's own blog.

If you have some thoughts on this, perhaps you could submit a blog of your own on this important topic. If you would prefer a co-writer to work with you, I would be very pleased to assist (your name would be placed with the article alongside my name) please advise.

Thanks for your comment.
John Brian Shannon
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
01:08 AM on 01/17/2012
How does one go about even submitting an article ?
06:46 PM on 01/16/2012
UGH! It is not the "British" monarchy. Get it right! And to those who complain about all of the atrocities committed in the name of the Crown, I guess you'd rather they have been made in the name of the people. Britain would have colonized the world either as a monarchy or a republic. Canadians have consistently reaffirmed the preference to maintain the country's central institution, and it's not going anywhere.
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Jay from Ottawa
sovereignty sale, 1.3T OBO
04:02 PM on 01/16/2012
When I hear the words "Royal Family", I think of every single atrocity committed in the name of the crown.

It should be no surprise that Gandhi is one of my personal heroes.
03:36 PM on 01/16/2012
What an absolutely silly hypotheses. Just because there are more pressing problems this subject shouldn't even be discussed? Canada never will be seen as truly independent as long as a foreigner comes here every few years cutting a few ribbons and waving at her subjects. Even the word "subjects" makes me shiver. The Queen is about as Canadian as a kiwi is.

And why are we spending more per capita on the monarchy as the Brits are? $1.53 versus $1.32?
Over just the last 10 years, the per capita bill for supporting the monarchist framework— including expenses incurred by the royal clan on Canadian soil, as well as the cost of running the offices of the Governor General and our 10 provincial lieutenant-governors—has more than doubled.
Total waste of money.
12:56 PM on 01/16/2012
The monarchy has no real power over us anyway, but as a tradition, I'm happy that we have a Royal Family. It gives us something pleasent to talk about.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
01:09 AM on 01/17/2012
Pleasant ?
07:57 AM on 01/17/2012
I prefer to read about the royals latest blunders instead of the latest death toll from Syria.
12:45 PM on 01/16/2012
Good article, I agree with you. I was caught off guard that abolishing the monarchy was an actual proposal at the Liberal convention.

I think, if we abolish the monarchy, it would like ripping out a part of our history. We need to have the monarchy present, it gives our history more significance, and that history becomes much more relevant, interesting, and real when our institutions, money ect... represent said history.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JBSCanada
They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot!
08:24 PM on 01/16/2012
Thank you for your comment Claudius ll.

I'm glad the federal Liberals reaffirmed their support for our Monarchy.

F&F for you.

JBS
11:28 AM on 01/16/2012
""there wouldn't be a Canada without the British Monarchy. This trumps everything as regards this debate."""

once a british subject always a british subject ?????-------you would do well in india with the caste system
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Vapula
Failure is not an option
05:30 PM on 01/16/2012
Amen.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
01:10 AM on 01/17/2012
Yup. Burmese Days by Orwell said it all.