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Returning Quebec Students Will Need to Retake Economics 101

Posted: 08/27/2012 12:00 am

The summer break might have tamed the student protests in Quebec, but Premier Jean Charest's early election call has ensured his proposed tuition hikes will stay on the political agenda.

The protests started back in 2011, when the Charest government proposed to modestly increase tuition fees over the next five years. Quebec's tuition fees haven't increased for 33 out of the last 43 years and this has made the entire system financially unsustainable.

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Premier Charest's original proposal went some way to closing the tuition fee gap but, as the horizontal line shows, still left Quebec's students paying less in 2016 than the rest of Canada does now.


Figures from Statistics Canada show that, for the 2011/2012 year, undergraduate students in Quebec paid an average of just $2,519 a year for their education. Meanwhile, students in Saskatchewan, Alberta and Ontario paid $5,601, $5,662 and $6,640 a year, while the Canadian average was $5,366 a year.

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Figures from Statistics Canada, comparing average undergraduate tuition fees across Canada for the 2011/12 academic year, show that Quebec's students don't have much to protest about.


Charest's tuition proposal would have seen Quebec students still paying thousands of dollars less for their tuition in 2017 than students in several other provinces are paying right now.

No organisation, universities included, can continue to provide a quality service if its expenses go up while it is unable to raise sufficient revenue to cover those expenses. In fact, many university officials had actually hoped for larger increases in fees to help them address the chronic underfunding their institutions face compared to their counterparts in other provinces.

Yet Charest was forced to water down his proposal, spreading the proposed tuition increase out over an extended seven-year period instead of five. The new proposal barely covered the cost of inflation over the 2012 to 2019 period, but was still rejected by student groups as unfair.

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Premier Charest's watered down second proposal spreads the fee hikes over a longer period of time, but will leave Quebec's universities struggling to even meet inflation costs.


"Money shouldn't be an issue," one student leader said when asked how else tuition could be funded.

Don't expect the election to end the dispute though. Just last week another student union spokesperson said, "If another political party is elected, for example the Parti Québécois, there will have to be negotiations. The party will have to respond to our demands." It's this kind of attitude that shows that the student unions will keep fighting against even modest and reasonable tuition increases, regardless of the result of the election.

The problem is that Quebec's student unions have not set any goal to achieve. Theirs is a moving target that no government, of any stripe, will be able to hit. It's something I've seen before.

In New Zealand, where I attended university, there is very generous support for those undertaking higher education. As just one example, many students are given a "Student Allowance" of hundreds of dollars a week in cash that can be spent on anything. This money never has to be paid back and often ends up going towards beer.

But even with such generous arrangements, student unions in New Zealand weren't happy so they organized campaigns and successfully pushed the Labour government of the time to introduce caps on tuition fee increases. Next, the student unions called for all student loans to be completely interest free -- a policy the government then campaigned for re-election on and proceeded to implement. Still not content, the unions have now moved on to campaigning for no tuition fees at all, and believe that all previous loans should be completely forgiven. The New Zealand experience shows that when one set of demands is met student unions usually produce a new set right away, often without regard to the cost to taxpayers.

It's easy to think that provincial matters don't affect the rest of the country but all Canadians should keep a close eye on the Quebec election. There's no such thing as a free lunch -- someone always has to pay the bill. In this case, thanks to equalisation transfers, taxpayers all across Canada will be forced to pick up part of the tab.

The shortfall in tuition fees that the Quebec government faces is coming straight out of the wallets of students and workers in other provinces where leaders have already made the tough decision to (or, have students pay their own way and to) have higher fees.

Quebec's student unions should take a hard look at their position. The majority of students just want to study, and the majority of taxpayers just want quality services at a reasonable price. In a real strike, workers risk their incomes and jobs while all that the student protesters have done is put their fellow students' education at risk.

On average, individuals who hold a university degree earn hundreds of thousands of dollars more during their working life than those who don't. It is only fair and reasonable to expect them to contribute towards the cost of that brighter future.

 
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The summer break might have tamed the student protests in Quebec, but Premier Jean Charest's early election call has ensured his proposed tuition hikes will stay on the political agenda. The protests...
The summer break might have tamed the student protests in Quebec, but Premier Jean Charest's early election call has ensured his proposed tuition hikes will stay on the political agenda. The protests...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Peterbot
12:20 PM on 09/29/2012
Funny. The numerous countries across Europe with free universities manage to out innovate us and have much higher levels of equality and social mobility.

Time for the rest of Canada to stop ripping of students and follow Quebec's lead.
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dredesch
06:03 PM on 09/23/2012
I call bullshit on the transfer payment argument. There is no mechanism in place that will automatically increase federal payments towards education just because universities experience a shortfall due to the cancellation of the tuition fee hike. And the likelihood of Marois negotiating an increase in federal education payments with Harper is less than nil. So you are misleading people (or deliberately misinforming them) when you claim taxpayers in the rest of Canada will have to pay for this.

As for student goals, they are not clear because the students are not a unified block. About one third of students went on strike during the last crisis. Of those, about 40%, the members of CLASSE, advocate for free post-secondary education, just like primary or secondary. Of the rest, most want the tuition freeze to continue, with some seeing indexation to cost of living as a reasonable compromise. For those who didn't want to screw up their studies by going on strike, some agree with a tuition hike of some sort, but most would align themselves with the other three viewpoints (free, freeze or indexation).
10:56 AM on 08/28/2012
The point shouldn't be whether the Quebec protests are justified, simply because they've been paying less for years. The question is why the rest of the country hasn't been more vocal about keeping their tuition fees reasonable.

If we want to evolve as a society, then we need to make education attainable to anyone with the skills and the motivation to succeed.
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dredesch
06:09 PM on 09/23/2012
Isn't that the whole point? That education should be available to all, not just to those kids who had the luck to be borne in well-to-do families. It says that education is not some commodity to be bought and sold. It is an investment in our collective future. Even people with no kids should reflect that it's the children other people have today that will pay for their pensions, unemployment and so on, tomorrow.
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03:06 AM on 08/28/2012
The important question is not how much is a reasonable amount that students should pay, or how much the state should subsidize, let alone whether or not more complicated second-order effects like how transfer payments from other provinces or whatnot should factor into the calculation. The important question that we need to be asking is this: Why is the cost of higher education outpacing inflation so dramatically? The cost of a college/university education has risen about three times as fast as inflation, and about twice as fast as healthcare. This is clearly unsustainable even in the medium term, let alone the long term, and the touted economic benefits of college, "on average, individuals who hold a university degree earn hundreds of thousands of dollars more during their working life than those who don't", are evaporating rapidly, and it is likely that within a generation, unless something dramatic changes, it will no longer be of any economic benefit whatsoever to attend college because the overhead and opportunity cost is so large. In many degree programs, and in particular at many expensive private, for-profit universities, this is arguably already the case.

This is the question that desperately needs answering. Quebec students, to their credit, are demanding their government take a serious look at the problem and find a real solution.
01:42 PM on 08/28/2012
Absolutely - Peter Thiel has been talking about this for quite a while.

I'd recommend this video: http://live.wsj.com/video/thiel-what-wrong-with-education/107C75A6-9856-4908-8E9B-67C2EF707E2C.html
10:54 PM on 08/27/2012
Okay, here's the problem: the students are the true conservatives in this, and you, Mr. McCaffrey, are the revolutionary. The revolutionary position: higher education that is too expensive for the average Canadian 20-year-old to afford.

For fifty years, between 1945 and 1995, it was possible for a student to pay both tuition and room and board with a summer job. Most people over 45 did that.

Now we are entering a new, revolutionary age where that's no longer possible.

We have abandoned the system that built our economy, that supported it at the time of our greatest growth and prosperity.

The Quebec students who march against higher tuition are defending the old Canada, not proposing a new one; you're the one proposing a radical social experiment that could easily undermine the foundations of our economy.

They're the conservatives. Not you.
01:43 PM on 08/28/2012
I never claimed to be a conservative.
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09:06 PM on 08/27/2012
As published in rabble.ca, http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/behind-numbers/2012/07/equalization-quebec-committing-hold

"Regarding the so-called "too generous" social programs that Quebec can "treat itself to" thanks to Albertans, the Quebec government presented an interesting rebuttal in a brochure accompanying the 2011-2012 budget. According equalization payment calculations, Quebec has a fiscal capacity of $6,088 per capita before equalization and $7,072 after equalization, i.e. a $984 gain in fiscal capacity.

This calculation however does not entirely reflect the average fiscal capacity of provinces because only half of revenues earned from natural resources are taken into account in the formula. In reality, provinces rather collect around $7,436 per capita. Quebec therefore would have to tax its population $364 per capita more to offer services level with the Canadian average. But in fact, the revenue which Quebec actually collects is $8,520 per capita, therefore $1,084 more than the Canadian average. This tax differential reflects the province's decision to offer more public services. It is therefore untrue to claim that Quebec is treating itself to more extensive public services funded by other Canadians: they are funded by higher provincial taxes than elsewhere."

Mr McCaffrey, in a response to a post of mine below, you wrote about "Canadians resenting subsidizing Quebec". As the reference above illustrates, this is not the case.

come clean, your agenda focuses on turning Canadians against one another with the hope they will be open to your anti government, Neo-Liberal agenda.
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dredesch
06:14 PM on 09/23/2012
Well said.
08:09 PM on 08/27/2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------ PART 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------

The really argument is about having once and for all a real public system that is fully public and created and maintained by society as a tool and a means for the further and greater development of our future generations, not as an industry or a company. Education is an investment first and foremost. If on the contrary the educational system is set to make profits and loses it's role as "beacon" of knowledge, a place to exchange and debate, a place in which ideas are harvested and not wallets or corporate interests then the result is fatal: a dysfunctional society is born.But then again speaking logic in world of neo-liberal consensus is a revolutionary act.
But please Mr.Macaffrey don't take the students of Quebec for economical morons... maybe you are the one after all that needs to take an priorities class 101!It's not about economics (as proven above more accessible educational system is the backbone for economical strength) it's about priorities!
07:51 PM on 08/27/2012
So sick and tired of these comparison arguments about how the Canadian average is so much higher then the rest of Canada. And the sliver-lining implies that either the students of Quebec are just spoiled brats, unrealistic utopists or misinformed. The people that are misinformed are being misinformed through your media and articles such as this one.
It's interesting to see Mr.Mccaffrey that have so much ease and agility to compare Quebec's situation with the rest of Canada and yet see no need to place Canadian median tuition in the international arena.
For exemple in France for public universities and I'm talking not about "Les Grandes Écoles" (the private system) tuition is actually free. Yes Mr.Mccaffrey zero point zero euros. And you can't say that schools such as Dauphine or Paris 6eme are not of International reputation. Equally the post-secondary system in Belgium is merely 865 euros per year. Universities such as the Catholic University of Louvain-La-Neuve or The Free University of Brussels are some of the most innovative in the world. And final illustration to my point in Scandinavian countries education is also free, it's considered the basis of society and not a "merchandise".
Now that your dear argument of the co-relation between quality education and higher educational fees has been deconstructed. I would like to offer a my vision of the only relevant co-relation between Stronger Economy, more "Productive", Heathier Society and an accessible educational system for all.
01:17 AM on 08/28/2012
You haven't disproved anything about quality and fee levels because education isn't "free" in all those places, it's just funded via higher taxes.

Fees will have to go up in Quebec to meet rising costs regardless of who wins the election. The only debate is about whether students should pay for some of the increase, or whether the taxpayer should.
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dredesch
06:30 PM on 09/23/2012
It is free to the students. Of course it is funded by higher taxes. These societies see collective investment in education as an asset that benefits all of society and they are willing to pony up for it.

Tuition fees are essentially going up in Canada because governments are spending a smaller and smaller percentage of the total cost of higher education, passing most of the shortfall to the students through tuition hikes.

As for the debate, it's a little larger than that. We can ask if post-secondary students should pay at all. We can even think of paying them to go to school so they don't have to work while they're studying. We could argue that students have to make some form of contribution to their education. If so, how much? Should whatever tuition scheme we have allow for family income? Perhaps we should ever wonder if the State should be in the education system at all, as some would have it. I thinks this goes a little beyond just deciding who pays for an increase, students or taxpayers.
07:49 PM on 08/27/2012
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Part TWO --------------------------------------------------------------

Let's take once again the exemple of France, the French population is one of the most educated and thus most productive in (economical terms) in the world. The same goes for Germany and the Scandinavian countries in general. On the contrary in Greece, Portugal, Italy and Ireland all countries that have been very badly hit by the economic crisis since the mid 1980's the educational systems of these countries have become more privatized = higher tuition.
The really argument is about having once and for all a real public system that is fully public and created and maintained by society as a tool and a means for the further and greater development of our future generations, not as an industry or a company. Education is an investment first and foremost. If on the contrary the educational system is set to make profits and loses it's role as "beacon" of knowledge, a place to exchange and debate, a place in which ideas are harvested and not wallets or corporate interests then the result is fatal: a dysfunctional society is born.
But then again speaking logic in world of neo-liberal consensus is a revolutionary act. But please Mr.Macaffrey don't take the students of Quebec for economical morons... maybe you are the one after all that needs to take an priorities class 101!
It's not about economics (as proven above more accessible educational system is the backbone for economical strength) it's about priorities!
01:19 AM on 08/28/2012
France is not one of the most productive countries in the world, and the countries suffering from financial crisis are the ones that have instituted large welfare states with huge entitlement programs that have bankrupted them.

The Huffington Post is a place to exchange and debate, yet they still manage to make a profit too.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
06:01 PM on 08/27/2012
Shouldn't the very fact that they were protesting such a meager increase prove that they are unqualified to attend a center of higher education?

Might be better to have them review grade three arithmetic.
08:37 AM on 08/30/2012
the fact that you think a 128% rise since 2007 is meager and that you don't understand that the new tuition level would force students into debt suggest poor understanding of both arithmetic and home ec.
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lilkitten22
Be the change that you wish to see in the world
03:03 PM on 08/27/2012
It's hard paying for tuition and some of these students live on their own, so attacking them for thinking that tuition should be low or for free lie some other countries is just dumb
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
06:02 PM on 08/27/2012
Huh?
Oh, wait, there is a magic money tree, over there by that unicorn!
08:33 AM on 08/30/2012
the Liberals find the money to give tax cuts and subsidies to their friends, but increase user fees on health and education. it's not about magic money trees, it's how we choose to use the money we have.
02:19 PM on 08/27/2012
Although some comments are interesting, very few seems to be able to make their point with real statistics or facts (see GeorgesK). The grass is always greener on the other side and Quebec will always be "distinct" for a variety of reasons and I don't really care why, but with the changing demographics in our country, Quebecois will no longer be the dominant minority. So while a host of statistics can be trotted out that prove "perceived" cost vs. actual cost is what makes the difference in access to education and persistence to degree completion, the ideologues will continue with their propaganda and those who really want a degree will continue to get their degree and the whiners will still be left behind. I suggest that those in Quebec who hold onto their "Quiet Revolution" values realize that social change takes time, effort and money. Stop riding the coat tails of those who fought for what you have now after the fall of Duplessis, do something productive and quit dishonouring their memories.
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dredesch
06:42 PM on 09/23/2012
You think the changes brought about by the Quiet Revolution did not require time, effort and money? That it all happened magically? Social change always requires time, effort and money.
01:03 PM on 08/27/2012
Your arguments are so boringly repetitious. You just don't get it, do you?

And while you harp on as you will, students in Quebec & across Canada will be busy trying to stop the increase in tuition fees across the board.
12:56 PM on 08/27/2012
The article really missed the point about the student protests. It was about the philosophy of how society pays for tuition. If other provinces feel they prefer to burden their best youth with crippling debts, that's their business.
The other missing point is that 30 years ago it was possible to work through the summer, and an additional shift here and there, to pay your way through university. That is no longer the case. Many of the students finishing with an honours have also a full time job and a crippling debts. Because even they are no longer receiving scholarships.
01:37 PM on 08/27/2012
As mentioned in the article, unfortunately equalization payments mean that what one province does IS the business of the other provinces.

If equalization payments were reformed or removed, then yes Quebec should be free to do whatever it wants without interference from other provinces. While the rest of Canada is paying, I think it's reasonable to allow them some influence in where their money goes - or at least be able to comment on it!
11:44 AM on 08/29/2012
Reform of the equalization payments and of the formula for the universities has always been on table.
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12:42 PM on 08/27/2012
What is wrong with you people? Because you had to pay too much, everyone else should too? That is just nonsense. Tuition cost is a reflection of fiscal and monetary policy that has deliberately been designed to undermine the ability of people to go to school. I admire those of you who claim "to have made it on your own". But the fact of the matter is that not everyone has the same set of circumstances facing them, and regardless of your assertions, you in fact got help in one form or another along the way. The Neo Con argument that we all "need to pull ourselves up by our boot straps", seems to be spreading here in Canada as well. I am retired now after 25 years military service, and I HAVE NO PROBLEM, paying more taxes to help kids go to school. The issue isn't over taxation, the issue is that governments have made decisions that have undermined revenue streams in a way that benefits a small minority, and now people like Mr. McCaffrey are trying to get you all to swallow it, hook, line and sinker. Start thinking for yourselves, and stop wanting to get anyone who didn't "have to suffer the way you did". Grow up.
05:52 PM on 08/27/2012
No-one is stopping you from paying extra taxes if you want to.

But we're debating whether other people who don't want to fund subsidised education in Quebec should be forced to.
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08:35 PM on 08/27/2012
No, the issue is not what you are framing. Your frame is that Canadians are subsidizing education; that is simply a strawman you have jumped on to push through your agenda that the enemy of all is equalization, and that students should pay the real cost of education, what ever the hell that means. You have an agenda with a specific goal of trying to make Canadians resentful of each other. Its an old tactic. You look at the US, think it is working there, and want to bring it here. You are not fooling as many people as you think you are. You aren't that smart.
10:58 PM on 08/27/2012
The problem is that subsidized education is the foundation of our economy. An educated population is required to compete; poor students can't finance their own education at age 20; but they can pay it back (in taxes) if it's paid for by your "other people".

No individual can predict the value of their own education, so individually, borrowing to study is a bad bet. But collectively, overall, it is a stupendously profitable investment, easily the best investment society can make. A bit better than F-35s, in fact.

Don't like roads? Guess you shoudn't have to pay for them either. Airports? Might not be there when you need them. Hospitals? I don't like paying for them either.

Public goods. Education is one of them.
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CanadaStan
Cogito ergo spud, I think, therefore I yam
06:04 PM on 08/27/2012
Nonsense.
The ease of student loans and handouts has increased the money supply aimed at education so education costs have been inflated.

More money chasing education means higher prices.
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08:36 PM on 08/27/2012
No, education is growing in cost because governments are under funding it. It has nothing to do with competition, but if it makes YOU feel better to write that, then as we used to say in the Navy, fill your boots.
09:42 PM on 08/27/2012
Exactly, and the government funded portion of the cost is much more elastic, so a higher portion of government funding will mean quicker increases too. This is what has caused the higher education bubble in the US as well.